The other day, I asked my sifu about the differences between charp choy and jab/cross in boxing. He told me that basically with the jab-cross, you make contact and then immediately retract back which of course, I knew already. But with the charp choy, it’s more of a stabbing punch. You’re trying to put your fist through the opponent’s body and out the other side. Of course, you don’t leave it out there for a long time, but it’s not brought back as quickly as a jab. Does anyone have anything else to add to this? I’d appreciate it. Also, what about the differences between pow choy and boxing uppercut?
A boxing jab can be done a few different ways. Watch a few boxing matches to see this demonstrated. The cross as well has several variations. There’s guidelines to how to do a jab and cross but trainers and fighters have several different ways of doing them, so it’s kind’ve hard to compare, aside from the loose guidelines themselves.
the song remain the same
Chaap choy for jab or for a cross same thing of karate with the reverse punch
or the front punch … also the same of a boxer
jab hit retract ,,,,,cross follow in ...
the pow choy thats a good question …used it like a boxer thats the best way…
Steeeve
You can use a chop choy for a jab. 
There are many different ways to throw Chop Choy, and outside of Chop, the pantherfist can be used for a lot of other types of punches such as Chuen Ahn Choy, Deng Choy, etc.
Examples are Tau Lau Chop Choy, Lin Wan, Yin/Yang chop and Gong Chop.
[QUOTE=hulkout;880852]The other day, I asked my sifu about the differences between charp choy and jab/cross in boxing. He told me that basically with the jab-cross, you make contact and then immediately retract back which of course, I knew already. But with the charp choy, it’s more of a stabbing punch. You’re trying to put your fist through the opponent’s body and out the other side. Of course, you don’t leave it out there for a long time, but it’s not brought back as quickly as a jab. Does anyone have anything else to add to this? I’d appreciate it. Also, what about the differences between pow choy and boxing uppercut?[/QUOT
In Choy Lay Fut as well as boxing a jab is a quick powerful set up punch very useful in any form of fighting, the chop choy is also very quick and powerful but can be used in many diffrent ways as infazel said. But how i use it is diffrent in the jabbing sence i turn it in to chum choy and use the panther fist as a jab as well. Very effective! The fong jong in CLF is like the boxing uppercut but the fong jong is wider, the boxing uppercut is shorter and more inside but the fong jong can be use this way also. Any of the CLF strikes and boxing strikes can be used many diffrent ways so always keep your mind open
You might also condsider the rather large differences in foot work between the two styles…in boxing you pivot on the balls of your feet when throwing hooks or right crosses, the stances generally more compact. In CLF your are much more rooted…flat feet, broader stances and big emphasis on the hips to generate power. CLF is probably a much more stable platform, from my experience, and I always thought it would benefit greatly from incorporation of boxing’s hooks. I liked the different non conventional angles that the CLF strikes present and both styles can very effective when greater use of combinations and angles of attack are employed. Straight line one, two attacks will tend be relatively easy to defend in most cases against a prepared opponent.
Another thing I would take from boxing, is the tucking of the chin, you protect your throat and keep your chin protected from knock out stike…many traditional martial artists dont’ take advantage of this great defensive technique. Watch your classmates during sparring.
[QUOTE=Havick01;882627]
In Choy Lay Fut as well as boxing a jab is a quick powerful set up punch very useful in any form of fighting, the chop choy is also very quick and powerful but can be used in many diffrent ways as infazel said. But how i use it is diffrent in the jabbing sence i turn it in to chum choy and use the panther fist as a jab as well. Very effective! The fong jong in CLF is like the boxing uppercut but the fong jong is wider, the boxing uppercut is shorter and more inside but the fong jong can be use this way also. Any of the CLF strikes and boxing strikes can be used many diffrent ways so always keep your mind open[/QUOTE]
How are you Sihing? Glad to see you talking on the boards again.
I’ll be giving you a call sometime tomorrow.
Peace and I’ll see you this Winter!
Personally, I dont see the differences as being to physical. Its more about concepts and theory (or strategy). In any real fight, you will never just leave your punch out there (like how someone suggested the chop choy is), and the same goes for longer arm strikes. The attack strategy should be quick, but with the correct force you want to aim for.
A fighter can take up a ‘less traditional’ fighting stance, and still apply the same ‘traditional’ strategies to his attack or strikes. This is still CLF then right? In the same way, a boxer could add some long rage swinging punches to his fighting method, and it will still be called boxing.
I see plenty of “ traditional” CLF strikes that are perfect for ring fighting. Also remember, a boxer might not be concerned with kicks, sweeps and take downs.
These style vs style arguments can be fun, but I think it can also become way to technical. Fighting should never be this technical.
jabs, crosses and uppercuts are short weapons. Any time the arm is curled it draws it short. Also, you can only apply arm strength behind such a weapon. A straight punch can be backed by power and your body weight.
Karate teaches follow through, which to me is turning an impact into a shove. Once the fist lands the shock will be disbursed into the opponents body or head, and then it is a done deal, so the hand should be retracted almost on impact.
Boxing is a limited system, but since it is limited to only a few real movements you can practice them to the point of being really good with it. But, an individual is only going to get as good as his own physical prowess will allow. Most systems use the shoulder as the pivot point for a punch, but this very difficult for me. The elbow as the pivot allows more speed and more power. I can muster as much or even more impact behind a bunch that is thrown from the elbow rather than the shoulder, and it arrives quicker.
I once knew a young man that was an exceptional street boxer. He held both hands in front of his face, both shoulders equal distance from opponent, and did not lead except with his feet. He came right up the middle and you could simply not hit him without coming around his guard, which let him rip off your head. He struck with the second knuckles of each hand in a downward motion, and he could cut your face off so fast it was just a blur. I watched him fight some of the toughest people I have even known, and he dominated them completely from first blow to last.
[QUOTE=hulkout;880852] But with the charp choy, it’s more of a stabbing punch. You’re trying to put your fist through the opponent’s body and out the other side. [/QUOTE]
Which is exactly what you do with boxing punches. Obviously, your sifu knows nothing about boxing.
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;882931]jabs, crosses and uppercuts are short weapons. Any time the arm is curled it draws it short. Also, you can only apply arm strength behind such a weapon. A straight punch can be backed by power and your body weight.[/QUOTE]
Boxing has no arm punches. All boxing strikes use full body torque. Torque starts with the feet, moves up the legs into the hips and torso, extending out from the shoulder and into the arm.
Boxing has no arm punches. All boxing strikes use full body torque. Torque starts with the feet, moves up the legs into the hips and torso, extending out from the shoulder and into the arm.
This is how it should be, but in watching boxing matches it is apparent that this is only when one braces for a real solid punch. Most of the boxers I see are dancing around and shooting jabs to make an opening and then dropping down for a hard right hand, depending if the person is right handed. Uppercuts can be very powerful, but tend to be really short. And during flurries you will see the arms sort of hooking at the opponent. This is backed by pure arm power. You do see what you speak of with some boxers, but not all the time. That is how with 2 boxers, all things being completely equal, one will usually out box the other.
well said knife fighther
whats about punch without gloves…
pheonix eye punch or the panther or leopard punch …
mostly whats the difference between a simple punch …like a bengchuan of hsing i …a vertical punch in WC,a chaap choi in Clf… or a pheonix eye punch of southern mantis or southern crane stylist …maybe pak mei
Whats the mechanist of power generation in the waist /hip style(southern sil lum) ,the elbow style or the dip gwuat (rib power)(wC, southern mantis…) or the full body punch like hsing i…
steeve
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;882991]
This is how it should be, but in watching boxing matches it is apparent that this is only when one braces for a real solid punch. Most of the boxers I see are dancing around and shooting jabs to make an opening and then dropping down for a hard right hand, depending if the person is right handed. Uppercuts can be very powerful, but tend to be really short. And during flurries you will see the arms sort of hooking at the opponent. This is backed by pure arm power. [/QUOTE]
That’s because you are looking at it from the viewpoint of a non-boxer. Take some boxing and enter some competitions and you will see that things are completely different than the way you imagine.
That’s because you are looking at it from the viewpoint of a non-boxer. Take some boxing and enter some competitions and you will see that things are completely different than the way you imagine.
That is sort of what I was doing. Growing up I went to a Catholic school for a time and part of the PE was boxing. From there it was boxing against kids from other schools around the state. Actually, a 5 state region. Then there was boxing at the boys club. Never went Golden Gloves, but did a good bit of boxing. So I can compare it against other fighting systems to some extent. Certainly there were plenty of others that were far better at boxing than I was.
One thing I did learn was that coming dead up the center I could punch and connect more and was seldom hit with anything that would hurt me.
I am not trying to disrespect boxing or anything. I liked it and it was a great deal of fun. I did learn that in order to be real good at it one would require a degree of physical prowess. It is fairly limited in scope and not just anyone is going to become really good at it. Not good enough to defend one’s self against even an average individual with some fighting skills. Not everyone is going to be a Mike Tyson. Some are destined to be PeeWee Herman’s.
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;883288]I did learn that in order to be real good at it one would require a degree of physical prowess. [/QUOTE]
To be good at any type of unarmed combat takes physical prowess.
It is fairly limited in scope and not just anyone is going to become really good at it. Not good enough to defend one’s self against even an average individual with some fighting skills.
LOL… boxing is as good or better than any other single self-defense system.
It can be as good I guess, but not everyone is going to be able to excell at it. Not everyone is going to be a Mike Tyson. The average person will never be good enough to fight against a really good gung fu system. The main reason being that it is so limited and that the average person does not have the long days of training that most really good boxers put in. If you have ever hung around a boxers gym you will see a lot of guys there, but not many of them will ever be good enough to fight for money. Most people never really get good at boxing at all. A good fighting system like wing chun can be taught and used pretty quickly by most anyone. They do not need to be real athletic or possess great physical prowess. I have done a little boxing as I said. But I could never reach the levels of some of the greats, not even if I worked 8 hours a day for years and years. These people tend to be exceptional. I have had a number of confrontations over the years and in all of them pretty much the only fight they did was boxing. It was simple to take them down. Now, this is not to say that they could not be dangerous. Anyone of any size can hurt you if you are not in control. In any fight you need to understand that you can be hurt seriously and you need to approach it with that in mind. I am not talking about ring fighting. That is sport at best and no one is in danger of being killed or maimed. In a real fight with someone that is intent upon doing you in, you can not afford to be taken down or knocked out. It could lead to your death or perminent injury.
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;883638]It is fairly limited in scope and not just anyone is going to become really good at it. Not good enough to defend one’s self against even an average individual with some fighting skills.[/QUOTE]
Wow, if it’s so limited in scope and you say that most people would not be any good at it, how then, could anyone get good at Kung-Fu, when it’s scope is so broad??
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;883638]The average person will never be good enough to fight against a really good gung fu system.[/quote]
Are you kidding?
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;883638] main reason being that it is so limited and that the average person does not have the long days of training that most really good boxers put in. [/quote]
You are not serious here, are you???
I was going to deconstruct the rest of your post, but I realize that there is no point.
A serious question: “Did you come to this conclusion yourself, or had a teacher/mentor shared this idea with you?” And I’m not being funny here, I would really like to know.
Lee Chiang Po sounds like he has never been in a real fight.
Keep talking son. Keep talking.
Most people never really get good at boxing at all. A good fighting system like wing chun can be taught and used pretty quickly by most anyone. They do not need to be real athletic or possess great physical prowess. I have done a little boxing as I said.
As someone who has extensive wing chun experience and decent boxing experience, I have to say that I have seen about 10 times as many people make boxing effective, than wing chun.
If you are not in fighting shape and something is holding you back from making boxing effective, the chances of making a kung fu system work are even worse.
At my old Wing Chun school there were maybe two or three guys, out of around 100 students over the course I was there, who I would have felt comfortable taking to a fight with me.
At my boxing gym I’d take practically everyone, except for the old fat ladies doing it for fitness.
Hell, I’d take some of the KIDS at my boxing gym over some of the WC ADULTS in any of the several WC schools I’ve trained at.