I’m not sure if this clip is funny or just embarrassing. :o
Maybe boards do hit back. :rolleyes:
Pick one! 
He’s an WT advanced technician and a direct student from Leung Ting. 
…puch completely pulled back before his “action” and he even manages to loose his balance and push himself backwards.
Probably those two students did not keep the board up in the right manner, :rolleyes: 
dodgy demo
this vid is indicitive of most WT demos, empty, shallow and not referencing fighting at all!
supreme ultimate wally.
But I do like Vic Guitterez check out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzwbsUSkmkI&search=wing%20tsun
The Goose!!
p.s. I also like Alan Orr’s clips
Last time this clip was shown the mods pulled the thread. I wonder how far in the leung ting pocket they are. Will it be pulled again?
Again more evidence from one of Leung Tings top instructors of my assertion that LTWT is garbage when compared to other wing chun families. However to paraphrase what i said on the pulled thread.
This clip proves there is value in LTWT. Anything that can make you laugh this hard has a great future on the Comedy Channel.
And mods if I offend you then just pull my post and not the whole thread again.
Hello Hunt1,
Everyone is free to express thier own opinion. However, it is unfair to simply attack others because you do not believe in their approach or theory. I am sure that every lineage has plenty of examples one can point to showing that approach is “garbage”. There are far fewer examples of those proving the superiority of many views.
Also, Emin came for the WT lineage and seems to have been able to make this “garbage” work for him. (Before you get started I have met Emin and I personally do not like him for personal reasons, but still have to respect his skill). But this goes to show one of my other views, that no matter what lineage one follows there are and always will be some who can make that approach work for them.
Feel free to discuss the merits, or lack of, for this approach or demo. However, please refrain from simply making attacks for the sake of doing so.
If people simply continue to post that this is garbage etc then the thread will be moderated, just as it would be if the target were another family.
That’s a bit small-minded! Laughter can cure many sicknesses too btw.
Mind you, I think this clip just made the Baby Jesus cry. 
Hunt, wasn’t it you who was looking for chun in Tokyo? If you still want to find some drop me a line, we always need new training partners to beat on. Er, share with.
I would say it’s embarrassing. Why didn’t he check the equipment before he performed?
By the way, Timmy Lee had already left LTWT.
Sihing73
You bring up some interesting points. That fact that an Emin can make the system work doesnt mean the system is good. Many good athletes can make improper mechanics or methods work very well it doesnt make them right or worthy of passing on. For example Lee Trevino was one of the best golfers of his era yet he had a large loop in his swing. This is one of the worst habbits you can have in golf. He was able somehow to make it work for him. No professional would ever teach someone to loop the swing they always work to get it out.
. I have never seen Emin in person. I am sure he is a fine fighter. However even in his vids the lack of lower body and hip usage is clear. The reliance on fast hands and demos with cooperative flippy flappy chi sao partners is clear.
Wing chun is dependent on the proper lower body mechanics to be effective. To many rely on just the upper body. It is no wonder wing chun is the laughing stock of the bullshido boards and most MMa types.
While garbage is over the top it does make a clear point and imo to many in wing chun have turned a blind eye to incomplete wing chun sold to the public as some type of great martial art. Look around and you will find large numbers of former wing chun players that felt ripped off after they tried their wc against resisting people . I believe that we should call a spade a spade and can the false politeness. We all know that in the training halls across the land folks from every wing chun family tell their students theirs is the best and everyone elses is second rate. I am merely putting a point on the discussion.
What is your focus
Hello Hunt1,
As I have often said before, none of us has a monopoly on the truth. Each of us will tend to lean towards our own approach as we would not be training that method if we did not believe in it. Still, what we find works for us will not always work for others no matter how well designed it is.
Consider how many of us learn to drive a car. We spend time perfecting our driving skills in all types of weather and road conditions. Now put two people with the exact same training and experience behind the wheel of a formula one race car. It is doubtful that they will both perform the same. My point is that irregardless of the training, an awful lot will depend on the individual and their ability to make that particular approach their own.
Going to your example of golf, think of how many superior atheletes actually broke the rules and performed outside of the accepted boundaries of their own “sport”. Many of the best were non conformists who excelled in spite of their “poor” or “garbage” training. Bruce Lee had several physical impairments and excelled in spite of them, due in large part to his superior drive. Consider also, Jim Thorpe who went on to become one of the most famous and accomplished athletes of his time and tell me why he excelled, certainly not because of his finding and training with a superior approach to training. He actually ignored the training advice of his day and age.
There is no cookie cutter mold to pour students in which will produce superb Wing Chunners, if there were then that particular school would have proven their superiority and doubtless the majority of the rest of us would be beating a path to their doors.
As to being the laughing stock of the MMA and Bushido boards, this concerns me little. I am sure you could find just as many who laugh at them as laugh at us.
Consider whether an art which demands above average skill and superior conditioning is a realistic endeavor for the AVERAGE person. In my mind while superior conditioning is certainly a desirible asset it is not a realisitc goal for most of those living in the real world. Besides, I doubt that you could point out anyone at the top of that game who represents one style, lineage or approach to fighting. Not saying there is anything wrong with cross-training but it seems a bit sily to advocate the superiority of one method while still stepping outside of the that approach to “round out ones game”. Perhaps this would be an example of simply refining ones “garbage” to make it more palatable.
One of the things which attracted me to Wing Chun was its adaptability to the AVERAGE person. One does not need to be a superman\woman to make the art effective. One also does not need to be locked into one narrow approach to make the art effective. Why is it that writers all using the same 26 letters can deviate between leterary greats and failures? Also why is it that one mans failure may be anothers inspiration?
As they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder and one mans garbage may be another mans treasure. Perhaps the man able to draw out the treasure is the truely exceptional practicianer.
I think I’ll take embarrassing.
I don’t really care to laugh at other’s misfortunes.
Why not both…
I think its funny AND Embarrasing… Why
Lets just say apart from poor technique he had fate against him, the wood was harder than normal whatever, if i hit the thing a few times with a punch with those results, i would have given another action like an elbow just to save SOME face. Poor guy :o
Im not a fan of this vid either. “Alan orr is another thing altogether, hes good”
Why is it in WT and lots of VT for that matter, people constantly get caged in with regard to chain punching ?
If you start hitting someone in the head and they cover there head with hands find the empty space…the body…
But no ! all to often people just keep punching the head space.
To me it shows a lack of Fight Awareness. But boxers get it from day one :rolleyes:
Come on VT peeps…
Now this one is funny, but not in a good way. :rolleyes:
Also, Emin came for the WT lineage and seems to have been able to make this “garbage” work for him.
Does anyone have any actual evidence of this? Actual fight footage, competition footage, seen him do a challenge match against someone skilled, or having sparred full contact with him?
The only things I’ve ever seen of him have been the infamous “jumping on W. Cheung” fight and demos with complying partners.
Garbage to gold - rags to riches
If you can make something… anything from the link below then you deserve SOME credit.
Complying opponenets SHOULD make you look skilled but even here he looks sloppy at best.
A fighter ? you decide …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y87Q7zDqS2Y&search=leung%20ting
WT/WC Tuff Teds!
WT category.
At No.1 Master Milan Prosenica EX-WT Full contact champion 250 fights no losses, he is regularly visited by Mirko Crocop. Master Milan is without a doubt the most succesful fighter WC/WT has ever produced.
No.2 Master Nick Smart from Lancashire, tuff street based EX-WT, unrelenting, aggressive and destructive.
No.3 Emin Boztepe, fast, conditioned and explosive.
No.4 Vic Guitterez, skilled, durable and inventive.
No.5 Tom Lamont, EX Nick Smart from Belfast, went onto fight Vale Tudo in Brazil, great wrestler also, very skilled and aggressive.
No.6 Phil Marrow, retired due to injury, Nick Smart top full contact fighter, 3 gold wins, in Lei Tai, San shou Euro comps.
No.7 WT/Alliance Team Denmark Tuff NHB based.
WC Category.
No.1 Rick Spain, Oz WC/BJJ/Kickbxing legend!
No.2 Kevin Chan, UK WC master/BJJ brown belt champion.
No.3 Alan Orr’s comp team UK amateur MMA.
Who else?
Gooseman.
Reply
Nice list Gooseman,
perhaps it would have been wise to include some of the greats from the USA also!
Hunt 1. your very taken with hip power being the key, could you elaborate some please and whats your personal success biog?
BV.
Liddel you should have put a warning on that clip. I spit my coffee all over my keyboard! I see no reason to bash LTWT anymore. There is nothing I can say that LT cant demo better.
Big Vern, it is not just hip power it is how to use the whole body. The body must be supple absorbing and issueing force at the same time without tension, just smooth and flowing.
As for my bio what does it matter individual success doesnt mean much. Mike tyson was a great fighter yet the line for training from him is very short indeed.
What is important is can what i say be proven. That is easy enough to do.
I posted some time ago about how a student faired at the Militich school. Nothing else needs be said about my methods. When a five year once or twice a week student that is an actuary and never grappled a day in his life can perform in one of the top 2 or 3 MMa training schools in the world no other proof is needed.
hunt1, that sounds interesting. Was your original post any more detailed? I’d like to read it.
I have met and trained with Emin and, like Gary Lam, videos dont do him justice. Let me say this…he is not just about speed or power…he is very very technical. In fact i’m 99.9% certain he would embarass every single person who posts on this forum in chi sau, sparring, a fight or whatever.
KF,
I dont know of any fight footage of EB, but he put out a 3 dvd set recently which has the best demonstration of chi sau i’ve seen on film (with his student michael). I know you’re not impressed with that sort of thing but think of it (perhaps) in the same terms as the Royler/Rickson pride demo although, yes, there is plenty of footage of them fighting too.