No, I am saying before it even gets there.
Also, Kung Fu prefers Ground and pound over wrestling on the ground anyway. There are a lot of moves in forms where you sort of kneel down. Those are “one knee on” type controls while you rain attacks down on the opponent. The monkey style especially is full of GnP finishes.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;887573]Actually, it does.[/QUOTE]
Dude, you stole the words directly out of my mouth. 
Now a few further points:
Ripping the flesh right off his bones: Um, no, sorry, it’s not as easy as all that. Don’t believe me? Go out and buy the leg of a pig. Don’t cook it. Try using your fingers to strip the muscle of the bone. Now remember: this is MUCH easier than ripping the muscle off the bone of a living, struggling opponent.
GnP preferred by Kung Fu: It’s true, a lot of kung fu includes GnP techniques in it’s forms.
But the larper / dancers who run through the motions of forms without ever actually fighting aren’t going to be able to control somebody enough to do it… especially not using the “one knee down” method of control.
Because, trust me, it’s not easy to control somebody from inside their guard, one knee probably won’t be enough if your opponent has even a day of any sort of wrestling training.
Practice Makes Perfect
I think more kung fu schools are beginning to focus more on the application of techniques than in recent years past. The arrival of MMA schools on every corner is forcing established schools to back up their claims of superiority in the ring or at least on the mat. This is IMO a great thing. I have been fortunate to train at a school that has always emphasised the importance of being able to apply what you know, and being in the proper physical condition to apply your techniques effectively.
Let us not forget that the first ten minutes of the official kung fu documentary Enter The Dragon has Bruce Lee, and Samo Hung fighting a San Shou match. Their attire is very similar to that worn by today’s MMA fighters. Bruce wins the fight by a take down followed by an arm bar. Samo tapped. This of course proves that MMA along with every other combat system practiced by man originated in the Shaolin temple and was later perfected by Bruce Lee.
[QUOTE=BentMonk;887613] Samo tapped. This of course proves that MMA along with every other combat system practiced by man originated in the Shaolin temple and was later perfected by Bruce Lee. :D[/QUOTE]
This is 100% correct.
ROTFLMFAO (filling up space)
[QUOTE=uki;887500]
sound intention does not require past experience.:D[/QUOTE]
but sound advice should. I can intend to replace a light switch in my house and really beleive that I will do it. But it would be stupid to try to tell someone else how to do it without never having done it. This may lead to a severe disaster or even death. How do I know? because I have replaced a switch and made mistakes that led to shorts and shocks, and I now know better and a correct method for doing it. Keep carrying rocks out of the woods and thinking that it’s improving your ground and pound defense.
[QUOTE=RD’S Alias - 1A;887593]No, I am saying before it even gets there.
Also, Kung Fu prefers Ground and pound over wrestling on the ground anyway. There are a lot of moves in forms where you sort of kneel down. Those are “one knee on” type controls while you rain attacks down on the opponent. The monkey style especially is full of GnP finishes.[/QUOTE]
Talking of monkey style true story. There is a teacher who teaches monkey kung fu along with some other styles. I won’t mention any names but some of you know him. I was taking a class of his about 15 years ago. The class was the self defence class at the kung fu school in long island. One of the student had a strong wrestling background. There was a mat out and the teacher was demoing some monkey ground work on the kung fu student who had a wrestling background. He was kind of playing around with a free form not a set move. The wreslter student started to resist and the teacher continued to do his monkey ground work. Want to know how it ended? the teacher was pinned by the wrestler and taped out.
Yeah, Monkey is one of the styles of Kung Fu that is most vulnerable to larpers and frauds. Sad but true.
Any Monkey style that does NOT involve flinging Poo is obviously not legit.
[QUOTE=SimonM;887625]Yeah, Monkey is one of the styles of Kung Fu that is most vulnerable to larpers and frauds. Sad but true.[/QUOTE]
Well the guy is legit. He isn’t a fraud. Just don’t think the ground work is trained as realistically as a style like wrestling where they go at it full force every time verse theory.
Not all LARPers are frauds. They are just people play-acting.
For a while I considered going to a boffer LARP that a friend of mine told me about because I figured it’d be a chance to actually swing something sword like.
Then I saw a youtube video of a boffer LARP.
That killed that idea fast. 
I have no problem with people play-acting for fun. I’m a martial arts geek. I’m still a geek. Lots of my friends actually DO actual LARPS. However, a note, when people confuse the play-acting of LARP for reality the geeks who are involved in that activity get concerned.
I have a big problem when people confuse play acting for reality. Sadly that is what many people in the martial arts do. If you are play-acting as a deadly ninja for the fun of it that’s fine, knock yourself out. Just remember that you aren’t REALLY a deadly ninja.
[QUOTE=SimonM;887635] Just remember that you aren’t REALLY a deadly ninja.[/QUOTE]
I’m not !?!?!?!
:eek:
[QUOTE=wiz cool c;887623]Talking of monkey style true story. There is a teacher who teaches monkey kung fu along with some other styles. I won’t mention any names but some of you know him. I was taking a class of his about 15 years ago. The class was the self defence class at the kung fu school in long island. One of the student had a strong wrestling background. There was a mat out and the teacher was demoing some monkey ground work on the kung fu student who had a wrestling background. He was kind of playing around with a free form not a set move. The wreslter student started to resist and the teacher continued to do his monkey ground work. Want to know how it ended? the teacher was pinned by the wrestler and taped out.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=wiz cool c;887628]Well the guy is legit. He isn’t a fraud. Just don’t think the ground work is trained as realistically as a style like wrestling where they go at it full force every time verse theory.[/QUOTE]
(some random words down here to make the minimum)
See, that’s the thing. I wasn’t saying the monkey sifu was a fraud. Balance of probability says no. I was saying the monkey sifu didn’t necessarily really know what he was doing. What’s worse is that he evidently thought he did.
[QUOTE=brothernumber9;887622]but sound advice should.[/quote]why not follow unsound advice and catch everyone by suprise?
I can intend to replace a light switch in my house and really beleive that I will do it. But it would be stupid to try to tell someone else how to do it without never having done it. This may lead to a severe disaster or even death. How do I know? because I have replaced a switch and made mistakes that led to shorts and shocks, and I now know better and a correct method for doing it. Keep carrying rocks out of the woods and thinking that it’s improving your ground and pound defense.
so until you are carrying the rocks i do out of the woods, perhaps you should first learn from your shocking little lesson before preaching it to me… 
[QUOTE=uki;887771]why not follow unsound advice and catch everyone by suprise?
Experience and observation have convinced me that the odds are vastly in favor of there being no surprise at all. The guy trying to rip some muscle or tendon off someone through their sweat and tension or clothing, gets beat down. I’m not against it being possible, but I’ve never seen it, and I’ve seen planty of MMA fights and more than a few real fights. I don’t have any recorded data, but likely somewhere around a few thousand fights, and never seen it happen. I therefore conclude that such defense has an extremely low possibility of working.
I’m not normally compelled to reply with some malice toward another poster, especailly when the posts have nothing to do directly or relatively indirectly with myself, but your inane posts and replies on this thread got me to do it. The suggestions you present in threads like this one are illogical, and for lack of a better or more PC way to put it, ring of ineptitude.
Uki rejects logic. When I provided a logical argument for the validity of logic he attacked it by saying I had used logic to argue for itself. Apparently he would prefer I provide an illogical rationale for the superiority of logic.
So here it is:
Logic tastes better, the machine elves from alpha centauri 8 told me so.
[QUOTE=SimonM;887944]
Logic tastes better, the machine elves from alpha centauri 8 told me so.[/QUOTE]a centaurian eh? lyran myself.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;887335]The GnP from the guard is also an issue.
Covering up is crucial, lead with the elbows so that the fists hit the sharp bones, but don’t left them too much or you expose your body.
Don’t close your eyes and remember to breathe.
Don’t Panic.
In training get yourself in the WORSE possible positions so you can learn to get out of them -
Learn to get out of a high mount and a low mount.
Learn to get out if you end up giving your back
Learn to get out if you are on your side
Learn to get out from the knee-on-stomach ( this can be even worse than the mount)
Learn to get out when you have him in close and he is raining elbows and head butts.
Etc, etc.[/QUOTE]
Very good advice.
About giving up your back; it’s a completely different story when you do it in sport BJJ as opposed to MMA or a fight.
[QUOTE=SimonM;887944]Uki rejects logic. When I provided a logical argument for the validity of logic he attacked it by saying I had used logic to argue for itself. Apparently he would prefer I provide an illogical rationale for the superiority of logic.[/QUOTE]
I actually agree with you 100% :eek:
Seriously, take all advice Uki gives and do the opposite.