Mun hung
Is there a name for the leaning back counter?
I’ve only seen this when we practise pushing hand exercise (solo, Tai Chi) in our class. Yes, that sounds strange to do a Tai Chi excerise in Wing Chun !
Could it be that the leaning back was something that evolved from Wing Chun and wasn’t originally a “technique” ?
I was kind of expecting to hear people say “it’s not Wing Chun” but this movement was taught by Yip Man. I’ve never seen the video you’re talking about, but my instructor told us that Bruce Lee was good at it. We call it the timing technique. We use it for defense of jabs also. Very effective if done correctly. I have’nt seen anyone else do it besides our sister school in Virginia.
The Chum Kiu set teaches the leaning back technique via its cat-stance and pivots.
what kind of hook?
This questions revolves around the problem of whether the hook is a tight (elbow out) hook, or a looping haymaker.
The haymaker solution is to stop the punch before it reaches speed. The further the fist travels around the circular path, the more speed it picks up. More speed = more power. Stop the strike early in execution, maybe with a tan sau/palm strike simultaneous action while stepping into the punch. This should leave you at about a 50 degree angle to the attacker. With the palm strike already up, and covering the line of a possible second hook from the opposite arm, the tan sao is in a position to deliver a devastating follow-up (it is basically cocked and ready!)
Tighter hooks are a lot harder to deal with. Often the solution is to not be there when the punch arrives. Sounds hard, but tighter hooks means less range. Try stepping out, then in at a 45 degree angle.
All in all, a good hooker can create many a problem for the inexperienced wc man.
Cheer
Sometimes a “good hooker” is a great thing! 
so my mother tells me.
In regards to Choy Li Fut’s Sow Choy-there are no unstoppable techniques-but there are definately some damn good ones (hey I said Damn-I guess ya’ll realized which Ten Tigers yer talkin to) Okay, I studied some Bak Sing Choy Li Fut, I’m no expert, but I know a little. Sow Choy, although powerful can always be defeated by getting inside,or jamming. The eye of the hurricane is the calmest. This is also the way a rotary throw is used.A shoulder stop to the shoulder (duh) or the bicep, or the throat, or tan-sao while simultaneously delivering a strike is usually the preferred technique used here.
bravo!!
i am in total agreement, mate. Stop the clock before it gets wound.
cheers
arm swing/round punch defence.
with good timing, deaden or disrupt the swing with a fak-sau into the bicep & simultaneous straight punch to the nose. this can be done with attack,retreat or side step. good hunting.
Avoiding circular strikes
If you want to counter a circular strike, such as a deng sao choi from Choy Lee Fut tie a weight to a rope and have some one swing the weight at you. By doing this you will learn how to avoid being hit.
Saying is not boasting at all
Defense against a round punch
Hi,
This is my first time to respond to a topic on this forum so please don’t pound me to death!LOL!
I agree totally with greedy and Ten Tigers. I think the primary defense for round strikes to the head should be to use the Lin Sil Die Dar principle, in this case Tan Da, or a simultaneous Tan Sao and straight punch. As the saying goes, where the head goes the body follows. If you attack as you simultaneously defend with Tan Sao, your Tan won’t have to absorb the brunt of the attack, only the momentum of the arm. The CL punch will neutralize the power from the attackers torso by uprooting his base. As for the eye being the calmest part of the storm, you hit the nail on the head. WC practitioners must work to get inside, and by stepping into the attack you will force the attacker into the range where wing chun is most usable - in close. After completing Tan Da, the Tan hand is cocked and ready to immediately follow up with a palm strike to the face, which will keep the attacker unbalanced and unable to fire a second strike. The key is to drill this until there is no gap between the Tan Da and followup palm strike with the Tan hand. For me, the sequence would be - Tan Da, immediately followed by a palm with the hand that just completed the Tan, followed by chain punches. The key is to drill it over and over until there is no gap. Overwhelm the attacker with offense. Sorry for being so long winded!
Just my opinion,
Thanks,
Gordon
A Tan Sao will not stop a circular punch whether it’s from CLF. Lama Pai or a Boxer. Believe me I have studied Wing Chun, Boxing and Choy lee Fut.
Saying is not boasting at all
A tan sau works for round strikes coming at you at or below your shoulder level. How can you apply a tan sau to a high circular strike without losing your structure?? Say someone is swinging at you from a near vertical angle (sow choy?) how can u tan sau that?
Don’t even think about taking a tan sau above the shoulder. I forget the name of the block to use against a round strike such as a sao choi, however the blocking technique it is more of a strait arm thrust making contact with the opponents forearm at the point just before the elbow.
Saying is not boasting at all
Incomplete
Guys,
You’re right. Wing Chun is incapable of dealing with a round punch. This is but one of MANY areas where the style is difficent in.
You can even go as far as to say that many southern styles are incomplete meaning that it deals with a few specific scenarios of combat - unlike the Northern Systems of course.
Ego Energize!
Maximus Maximize!
defence against circular arm swings
hello everyone
I am only a beginner with regards to wing chun,and have been training hard for about 6 months in traditional wing chun as taught by william cheung by one of his certified instructors. The main technique we learn and use is the bil sao(stretching deflection block)and simultaneous front kick against a round punch, it works superbly from either parallel or cross arm and from either a lead or rear hand round punch attack, the beauty of this technique is its simplicity but effectiveness, the harder they hit the more it hurts them and it works against all size opponents. 
Incomplete or not understood?
Hello All,
There is no reason that you can not use a Taun Sau against a round punch. It all depends on the type of energy you exert with the Taun. For example; if you use the Taun to “disperse” and “cover” in a manner of laying it on the opponents attack then it can be quite effective. What I am saying is that Taun used in this manner is often “spread out” and not as forward and close to the body. It is almost like the chest is the point of a triangle and the two arms are the sides. Each one going in a slightly different angle and getting further apart as they continue on. Many people think of Taun in the terms of “palm up arm” yet the term is also used, some would even say more accurately used, for dispersing hand. When one takes in the opponents attack and lays the Taun on the arm you can deal with a high level punch and you can also spread out the incoming punch and deal with it even if it is a hook. You can even, if you desire to, use the Taun and its structure to take advantage of the incomming force of the attack and use the opponents force to hurt his weapon/arm. You can use the concept to cut his attack and this is how you could deal with a hook or circular attack. Of course, there are other movements which may be better given the situation.
Ego, as to limitations of the style I would say that is more the individual than the system. Consider an artist. There are many that can take an art class and be taught the same techniques yet how many can express themselves like a true master? Is the failing in the teaching, the methods and techniques or in the students ability to comprehend and make them his own? Each art has its own advantages and disadvantages. Each art has examples which can make its core principles work and work well. Don’t blame the art but instead think of the artist and thier level of skill. If you truly believe that Wing Chun is incapable of dealing with a hook or other type of circular attack then perhaps you have visited the wrong Wing Chun schools. BTW, just so you know Wing Chu has its own hook punch which is a very short range movement. We also train to defend this punch and if you can defend close further is actually easier. I see that you reside in New York, I would think there are several schools in NYC which could demonstrate effective methods of dealing with a circular attack. They don’t even need to be of the same lineage. Of course, I am sure there are examples one could point to that can’t defend against this type of attack but I think it a failing of the artist not the art.
Peace,
Dave
It’s funny, I often thought that the haymaker type punch was the most common attack WC trained against at a basic level.
Everyone above seems to talk about exact shapes, positions and techniques. The spontaneous nature of combat seems lost.
What I am trying to say is that when faced by the “enemy” you don’t know who they are and what style they will use. All you have is your instincts and reflexes honed by hours of training and THOUGHT.
There is no time to think Ah! a Thai kick or karate punch , takedown etcc. You must just react for better or worse.
From my limited experience with any attack the most common defense is to immediately counter attack…the hands rise from your side (assuming you were surprised) and the body crouches and thrusts forward. Tan sao bilsao happen automatically if required, otherwise the opponent gets hit.
To stand and try to take the blow, be it a kick or punch is suicide. Better to land something of your own which at worst may put the opponent off and at best hurt him/her.
To lean back to avoid a punch may be possible, but to train it is just bollocks - you are training to fall over.
It is true some attacks may be side stepped or pushed away - again this is reflex and is a factor of the atack distance too. Its not like IKF where the attacker throws a huge punch two feet from your head for a clean easy block.
In my training now the shapes of tan, fook bong etc all blend into one and all. There is no perfect shape and one should not be expected. There are just concepts and feelings.
I hope I don’t sound too arrogant with my words - just my ideas. Good luck.
P.S. To the guy who ties the weight to the rope - watch yer back!
rp is right there are no absolutes or perfect shapes when it comes to self-defence. I t really just boils down to reflex you can train all you like against a technique if you react incorrectly you are either hit with a bruised ego or worse possibly dead.
PS weight on the rope is an exercise designed to demonstrate that not all round strikes are ridged. Some round strikes such as deng sao choi (a strait arm sweeping strike) the opponent can change the strike from deng sao choi to a regular round strike as soon as the blocking arm has made contact resulting in the fist getting passed the block.
Saying is not boasting at all
well.
i haven’t been around for a while, although i have been reading regularly.
all i want to say is that is good to see that the skill level & basic knowledge of wing chun from some people is as pathetic as ever.
“you can’t use tan sau against a round punch(including a strike above the shoulders or from near vertical)”
what a joke, if you people believe this to be true then not only are your basics poor they are non existant.these are the easiest strikes in the world to deal with & to dignify any of the idiots with an answer would be an insult to the intelligence of any beginner at a half decent wing chun school anywhere.
if you know what you’re talking about speak but if not then shut the phuck up & let people with more than one brain cell enjoy their discussions on this site.
vts