]Like I said, you and your compatriots can go join the mma forum then.
Ok, so unless you are “pure” WC you cant be here? Genius.
None of you have offered next to nothing as far as sharing actual WC knowledge on this forum. Just a bunch of little cry babies who only accept “pressure testing” i.e. sparring, sport fighting, as undeniable proof of effectiveness. Apparently no one can disagree with your “methods” of proving. Let me ask you something smart ass. Should a monster truck race in NASCAR? Should a NASCAR compete in a monster truck arena? Should a skateboarder use rollerblades in a skateboard contest? Should a rollerblader use a skateboard? Should professional baseball players use aluminum bats? Should swimmers be not allowed to shave? Should a gun be allowed at a knife fight? Should a samurai sword be allowed at fist fight?
That is without a doubt the stupidest analogy ive heard on this forum. The fact that you cant actually relate to combat without resorting to some totally unrelated
topic shows how far removed from reality you are.
Why don’t any of these seemingly same catergory things go together genius? Just because WC uses fists and feet like your beloved mma doesn’t mean it would fare well in an mma bout. Obviously it hasnt! Does that mean its worthless or ineffective because it’s a negative in sport fighting? I guess NASCAR’s should be called worthless then and everything else above I stated. Different tools for different games smart one. Instead of destroying and containdicting everything WC is, I’d rather keep my tool for its appropriate use. You’re an idiot. It’s no different from destroying your pocketknife to screw in a Phillips screw because you’re too dumb to realize there’s a thing called a screwdriver for that.
I stand corrected… THATS now the stupidest analogy ive heard on this forum.
Screwdrivers, pocket knifes??
Is this a wordworking class?
[QUOTE=Jake104;1158894]Wow, why the sudden change of heart? For the last 7 mOnths you have been making excuses as to why sparring is to dangerous. Something about concussions and some study you read or seen on tv. The last few times Tiny and i sparred you wanted nothing to do with it. You sat on the sidelines and watched.
Now on a internet forum you act a different way? Come on bro, quit being fake.
This in a nutshell is the problem with WC…[/QUOTE]
OK, I’m gradually coming around to your point of view and you get all ticked off? Lighten up a bit. Seriously. There’s enough negativity on this forum already. As for being a fake, naw. I’m the real thing… an authentic couch-potato these days, and not feeling too good about it!
[QUOTE=Alan Orr;1158742]Not all wing chun is a move from a form.
The principles of wing chun are fist and hip connection. Structure of power development. Weight control. Some things are hard to see if you do not train that way. Timing of movement.
Try to grow passed the ‘where is bong and tan’ they teach you your awareness of position - not blocks. When you are in close you will clinch and guide with the correct line for movement if you understand the shapes of wing chun. Problem is a lot of wing chun people are not sparring and testing.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Also, I liked the sparring clip - to me shows an adaptation of the art to a more limited rules format like MMA. I have no problem seeing the body mechanics of WC there. It was a good solid full contact mma rules sparring round.
Don’t understand the criticism on this thread of “that’s not WC”. People are looking for tan, bong, fuk instead of the core fundamentals of the art such as centerline, hip/elbow connection, flanking facing. They need to learn to see beyond the shapes to what is really important.
Can I ask Alan (and this is a semi serious question) were you bored when you posted this clip and just looking to start another flame war with the too deadly to spar street fighting keyboard worriers (sorry I mean warriors) on this forum?
It as always amazes me people can take the time to write about how unwingchun like Alans stuff is, respond to him over and over, and yet can’t find the time to…oh I don’t know…actually post a clip of themselves in action….the best most of them can do is post a clip of PB swinging a pole or playing slap fighting with a student (WSL must be turning in his grave)
It also amazes me that the few people not badmouthing Alan, phil, Andrew, Wayfaring have all come from clubs where fighting and sparring is commonplace
Nice of Clip of my student Sai sparring with Andy.[/QUOTE]
1:06 - I used the jing gerk/punch (mostly tai kuen) combo ALOT back when I trained Wing Chun, too.
It’s specially useful when you’re shorter and want to close in without eating punches.
One of the guys I trained with was pretty good in catching you with a hook when you were closing in (what an d1ck!:D), so the front kick was good to “check” his movement - the punch was then used to engage.
PS: You should be careful with the background music you select, man. That song could **** your students off so much they’ll hurt each other.
I agree. Also, I liked the sparring clip - to me shows an adaptation of the art to a more limited rules format like MMA. I have no problem seeing the body mechanics of WC there. It was a good solid full contact mma rules sparring round.
Don’t understand the criticism on this thread of “that’s not WC”. People are looking for tan, bong, fuk instead of the core fundamentals of the art such as centerline, hip/elbow connection, flanking facing. They need to learn to see beyond the shapes to what is really important.[/QUOTE]
Can anyone point to a timestamp on the video where any such WC principle is being utilized? Maybe we just don’t see it?
I’m not looking for taan, bong, fuk, etc.. But I don’t see any centerline, hip/elbow connection, flanking facing or any of these concepts.
What I do see is a lot of dropping or pulling back of the rear hand when throwing a punch with the other, such as at 1:15 and many other places. Most defense is just “cover your head” like a boxer. I see no body mechanics, counterattacks or other principles of WC demonstrated.
Perhaps point to a timestamp like that and explain how it shows a certain WC principle. Since it’s all pure WC that should be easy enough, right? I should wonder why so many are just seeing kickboxing, and no WC…?
[QUOTE=LFJ;1159232]Can anyone point to a timestamp on the video where any such WC principle is being utilized? Maybe we just don’t see it?
I’m not looking for taan, bong, fuk, etc.. But I don’t see any centerline, hip/elbow connection, flanking facing or any of these concepts.
What I do see is a lot of dropping or pulling back of the rear hand when throwing a punch with the other, such as at 1:15 and many other places. Most defense is just “cover your head” like a boxer. I see no body mechanics, counterattacks or other principles of WC demonstrated.
Perhaps point to a timestamp like that and explain how it shows a certain WC principle. Since it’s all pure WC that should be easy enough, right? I should wonder why so many are just seeing kickboxing, and no WC…?[/QUOTE]
Would you be able to point us to a video that shows “real WC” between two fighters actually fighting?
Of course one can argue that if you could actually SEE the techniques it wouldn’t be WC, but I wouldn’t take it that far.
I’m not looking for technique, per se, but principles such as what was mentioned by the previous poster. Are they displayed anywhere in the fight clip at hand?
[QUOTE=LFJ;1159232]Can anyone point to a timestamp on the video where any such WC principle is being utilized? Maybe we just don’t see it?
I’m not looking for taan, bong, fuk, etc.. But I don’t see any centerline, hip/elbow connection, flanking facing or any of these concepts.
What I do see is a lot of dropping or pulling back of the rear hand when throwing a punch with the other, such as at 1:15 and many other places. Most defense is just “cover your head” like a boxer. I see no body mechanics, counterattacks or other principles of WC demonstrated.
Perhaps point to a timestamp like that and explain how it shows a certain WC principle. Since it’s all pure WC that should be easy enough, right? I should wonder why so many are just seeing kickboxing, and no WC…?[/QUOTE]
Thats a fair question LFJ
I think the key to the video is the title of it. Its “CSL Boxing”, i think its saying “hey we are in the ring within a sporting context and this is our take on it using CSL principals”.
Its true what you say about lack of apparent hand techniques, but as they are staying at a primarily kicking/boxing range they are using tools better suited for that range.
But, they have a flavour about their structure and footwork which certainly isnt MT/boxing and (to my eye anyway) is presenting a WC structure.
Thats my take on it.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1159247]I’m not looking for technique, per se, but principles such as what was mentioned by the previous poster. Are they displayed anywhere in the fight clip at hand?[/QUOTE]
Ask the guy fighting what principles he used.
I always remember that take from WSL, how he was criticized for using a knee strike to beat an opponent, how he was asked what WC principle he used and he said:
Closest weapon to closest target.
Or something to that effect.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1159247]I’m not looking for technique, per se, but principles such as what was mentioned by the previous poster. Are they displayed anywhere in the fight clip at hand?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1159252]Ask the guy fighting what principles he used.
I always remember that take from WSL, how he was criticized for using a knee strike to beat an opponent, how he was asked what WC principle he used and he said:
Closest weapon to closest target.
Or something to that effect.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, he asked a civil and intelligent question.
If you say you can see WC in it, point it out for him.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1159259]To be fair, he asked a civil and intelligent question.
If you say you can see WC in it, point it out for him.[/QUOTE]
I was pointing out that if he can’t see what he thinks he SHOULD see that has no baring on whether it is “WC”, or not, whatever that even means.
Some would argue that the moment an elbow is thrown that it isn’t WC.
Some would say that if there is no “chi sao” evident that it isn’t WC.
Some would argue that if it doesn’t look like what they THINK it should, it isn’t WC.
Of course that leads us to the often debated point of what SHOULD WC look like VS a person trying to knock you face off and NOT doing “chi sao” with you.
That leads us to the question of what WC should look like VS something that is NOT WC.
That also leads us to the question of what WC should look like in a practical fight and NOT a controlled drill.
[QUOTE=Frost;1159257]so thats a no then you cant post it?[/QUOTE]
You’re passing the buck…
We already have a video posted for analysis, which some people are suggesting shows WC principles, while many aren’t seeing it. So I asked for someone to analyze the video and explain where WC principles are being utilized.
It does nothing but pass the buck to say “show me a video” in response. I could say the same thing to you. “So that’s a no, then you can’t say where the principles are in this clip?”
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1159263]I was pointing out that if he can’t see what he thinks he SHOULD see that has no baring on whether it is “WC”, or not, whatever that even means.
Some would argue that the moment an elbow is thrown that it isn’t WC.
Some would say that if there is no “chi sao” evident that it isn’t WC.
Some would argue that if it doesn’t look like what they THINK it should, it isn’t WC.
Of course that leads us to the often debated point of what SHOULD WC look like VS a person trying to knock you face off and NOT doing “chi sao” with you.
That leads us to the question of what WC should look like VS something that is NOT WC.
That also leads us to the question of what WC should look like in a practical fight and NOT a controlled drill.[/QUOTE]
Already said I wasn’t looking for techniques or appearance of WC, but the principles that some have claimed are present. I just don’t see them being utilized.
We we do see in that clip (the first one) is the guy in the tank top ( called TT from now on) doing th is:
Striking up the centerline
Checking and trapping the hands and hitting ( with gloves so it must be modified accordingly from bare hands)
Controlling the centerline and striking with the elbows down ( where a typical boxer would have most definitly gone for hooks and overhands on more than one occasion).
Head gear and gloves make for modifications and adjustments, things that one must do in ANY fight.
