No, because after three punches, if I am doing it right, have trained properly, then I wont have to worry about them returning anything.
Do you really believe that?
That might work in theory but things are alot different in the real world, what if you don’t hit perfectly? but let’s say you do hit - what’s best 3 hits where they might or might not go down and stay down or 10 - 20 where there is alot bigger chance they go down and stay down?
When they are getting hit they will try to defend thus they are not able to attack you.
(We are talking street fight here not WC/WT master vs WC/WT master)
wtinfo - thats the point, I train so that is what happens. You can play what if with any scenario, but I train like I plan to fight and the more I train and the smarter I train the more things will go my way.
So you could say yes, I do believe that.
You can also train so you only hit once and they are done for, I’m just saying that in reality the chances of that happening is small, and if there is only one opponent then use whatever means you have to ground him into the road to make sure he won’t get up to try and hurt you again.
A really big body builderwho didn’t belive that the WT punches could do any dammage agreed to let a Danish Sifu punch him once he wen’t out cold, if you can do that fine - but i’m 100% sure that the Sifu who did that if he got into a real fight would gladly throw 10 - 20 of those just to be 100% sure that his opponent didnt get up again.
Training is one thing, reality is another im sure you’ve heard all this crap before and i’m by no means an expert. I guess what my point is, is that Chain Punches have their place and with time they only get better and in reality there is no one who will go down after a certain amount of punches, it varies for all some might only need 3 some needs more. In a real fight it’s about dishing out as much pain as possible so your opponent either can’t or won’t want to come at you again, not about holding back and only using a certain amount of punches in my oppinion.
Just my 2 cents … Again im a beginner this is just what makes sence to me.
I do agree on you with training for something that is a bit unreachable (training for perfection) but it sadly is a whole different world in real fights.
wtinfo, I agree with you that chain punches have their place, otherwise they wouldnt be there. Its just in my opinion (and we should all be getting used to these by now ) that they can get excessive with some people.
I think what you are saying makes sense from your point of view, it also sounds like you train WT? If thats your bag then I say go for it but I still think that there is such a thing as too many, and you should be training so that those 2-3 work every time.
For example, why follow your opponent down with chain punches? I see this all the time, particularly in WT demo videos, the guy goes down and the attacker is following him to the ground! What happened to footwork?!
Perhaps after 3 punches that have no effect on the opposition, other than p$$ng them off, at that point it might be worth trying something different!? At the very least change where you’re punching (and who you’re taking lessons from!) [/B]
Once again - I train to try to finish it with one punch, but I am not foolish enough to believe that one punch is going to win every fight. Maybe it will take one, three or thirty.
So this poses a question. If you fight an individual and manage to take them down with two punches, and then fight another and cannot take them down without using 30, are you going to look for another teacher, try to make your technique more efficient, or realize that not every opponent you fight will have the same constitution?
I suppose it just comes down to why you are learning Wing Chun. Are you learning to see how perfect you can get it in your mind or are you learning it to potentially save your life? The reasons can make a big difference in what you focus on.
Now you may be inclined to post - “I train for both” - but can you honestly train for every situation that may occur? No - because you never know what can occur. That is why we try to react to an opponent instead of mapping out the fight before it happens.
There is nothing wrong with training to try and take the opponent out in 3 punches max. Just don’t fool yourself into thinking that this will work on every person every time.
Actually, punching is just one of the many weapons we have in our arsenal and not always the most effective. I train to use all these tools when they are needed and as fits the situation.
Chain punching is not a low level technique, but is used as a crutch by alot of low level students. It is one way of using 2 of your weapons. I wouldn’t want to face off against an M16 if I am armed only with a revolver and only 2-3 bullets I would much rather have an M16 (full clip) and only have to use 2-3 of my bullets, saving the remaining bullets for any friends my oppoinent may have lurking in the shadows.
How many chain punches, or punches, are required is always dependent on the situation. You can’t say that 2-3 punches will be sufficient, anymore than you can say that 10-20 will be required. But like anything else - you should train with alot of reps in the hopes of using only a few.
UF - I had a Sihing show me how he could stop chain punches with just one hand and 2 moves. So don’t put all your faith in them. Anyone with more experience than you, or I, have will be able to render them ineffective. In the right situation or when combined with other techniques the can be very effective.
R5A - I don’t think that WSL ended all of his fights with just 2 punches. I may be going out on a limb here, but I would say in your 2 years of training that you aren’t as good as WSL was on his worst day. Nothing personal, because neither are most, if not all, of the people posting here, myself included of course.
I agree with Old Jong, that chain punches are a great conditioning drill and that may be there biggest benifit. Try throwing 1000 and you’ll see what I mean.
No offense taken, although I am not sure where the WSL reference came from unles syou are just using him as an example. I would take it further and say he may not have one all his fights with punches period.
OK, in my version of the real world, there’s no way anyone is going to hang around while you get off 30 chain punches on them. Either they are going down after a few or they’re countering with something else. Now I’m all for keeping on going till the guy’s lost his threat potential, I’m just going to vary my tactics if they’re not working.
Perhaps a different tack.
When y’all say ‘chain punch’, I’m imagining you’re pretty well aiming for the same area on the opponent, right? You’re not throwing a bunch of different stuff like attacks to chin, ribs, plexus, throat/neck etc?
So what are you aiming at ?
R5A - “I am not sure where the WSL reference came from”
It came from TJD’s reply under this same post. And your right in that he (WSL) may not of won all his fights with his fists. There is more in our (WC, WT, VT, etc) arsonal than just chain punches. If they are on the ground, and the way is clear, kicking or stomping him about the head and face would be more effective than chain punching. But be carefull because that can cause permenant damage to a person, and the courts may not agree that hurting a person when he is down and on the ground is self defense.
Teaser - I wouldn’t aim all of my chain punches at the same area, unless it was continuously open (which is very unlikely). An example might be that if for some reason I was limited only to chain punching and the opponent is coming at you hard, try to hit him in the face as many times as possible (using his power and yours against him), then step and turn continuing the chain punches to the side of the head and neck [I once got sucker punched in the side of the neck and couldn’t turn my head for a week 8>)]. I know this example is unrealistic but it was the only one I could think of at this time that demonstrates chain punches and moving and hitting various areas.
why don’t you try 3 punches on a guy loaded on PCP and then stop to see if that was enough while he kicks your ass? How about training smart by training for the unknown instead of what you think will happen based on watching UFC cage matches.
I agree that you shouldn’t need too many hits to knock somebody down. A good crossing elbow is often a one hit wonder. I saw an Aussie Muay Thai guy (Brendan “Humpty” Short) knock out a Thai with a single crossing elbow.
Alternately I watched Warren Elson (7 times world champion) hit a Thai opponent in the head (at the same fight) with the same elbow technique for five rounds and the Thai didn’t go down.
There is often a great difference between what works in theory and that which works in real life. As someone said before if the opponent’s head moves even a fraction in the wrong direction most of the power of the punch can be almost negated, then perhaps neccesitating a greater number of punches.
I like to strike the same point repeatedly if the 1st attempt doesn’t destroy it. But I suppose you can only throw so many punches before someone gets wise to you. Whatever works.
Originally posted by Gandolf269
[B]
UF - I had a Sihing show me how he could stop chain punches with just one hand and 2 moves. So don’t put all your faith in them. Anyone with more experience than you, or I, have will be able to render them ineffective. In the right situation or when combined with other techniques the can be very effective.
[/B]
What exactly does this method involve? The best way I know to counter anyone who comes at you with a flurry of punches is to duck low and take them down. This is from Judo and other grappling but it is an almost universal solution to stop punches and gain the offensive.
What exactly does this method involve? The best way I know to counter anyone who comes at you with a flurry of punches is to duck low and take them down.
Umm, where to begin? If you want to stick with one hand, try a forward pak sau on one side, reverse tan on the other. Alternatively, an elbow and a reverse tan, some biu gee piercing movements or whatever takes your fancy. Your hands have to move very, very little to counter chain punches. This is done on the opponents outside gates, btw - and that’s all just with one hand. Ultimately you can pick any two movements you like and do them with one hand.. wu sau, jum sau, etc. Although you’d be a little daft to just stand there and block while someone throws chain punches at you, so here’s something better that requires one move and one hand - when they try to hit you, punch through their attack and hit them instead.
I’ll admit, I’m laughing a lot at you ‘ducking’ my chain punches - what, you think chain punches are just going to continue aimed at the spot where your head was while you come in? If your hands aren’t there to stop them, the only thing that’s going to be impeding my chain punches is your head when they connect while you’re trying to ‘duck’ under them. You don’t just throw chain punches and hope they connect, you use them when circumstances allow you to deliver multiple strikes and control the opponent while you’re doing it.
I would say that if you are delivering single punches, they would most likely be with the same hand and the other one would be tied up. If you are chain punching, then the way is free and that is most probably what you should be doing. “The best defense is a good offfense.”
Surely you use whatever force is necessary to defeat the opponant?
If you can take him in one hit - fine. If it takes 12 strikes to the face, better make it 12, no?
You should always TRAIN to take the guy down in as little time as possible, to eliminate the threat. But don’t get so caught up in this “one-hit” mentality that you refuse to press the advantage.
And don’t go into a fight with this mindset. You think on the fly and adjust your tactics to neutralise the situation best.
Chainpunching is about finding a line and staying on it, because if your hand is in contact with the opponent, then you already have established the most effecient and quickest route to your opponent, and it is open, because you occupy it. Chainpunching is a principle, not a technique, you dont throw chain punches, you throw a punch, and because it landed, you attack down the same line.
Once you have the line, you keep hitting down it, the opening is there, it would be silly to forfeit the line you occupy to attack somewhere else( on another line). It might take only two or three punches, or it might take twenty (is your opponent on PCP?), regardless, you occupy an open path to the target, use it!
red5 said:
…Its too comittal…
If you are forced to fight and you are not 100% commited to doing WHATEVER it takes to survive, you probably are going to lose.
red5 also said:
…hitting someone that many times is just plain slppy…
Have you seen or done much full out sparring recenly? When was the last time you saw a non-professional (i.e. street) fight? I have yet to see one that wasn’t sloppy and ugly. Graceful streefighting with smooth techniques? Only in Hollywood, my friend.
