Has anybody on this forum actually used wing chun in a fight i have used chain punches but then he grabbed hold of me and tripped me up got on top of me but i managed to grab his neck down and yank his hair because i did not know much then so i was just wondering if you have any experinces ?
My first actual wing chun defense!
I used a low bong sau when a guy tried to jab me in the gut. After i low bonged i used a lop sau followed by a backfist to the face. Worked well in that situation. Maybe beginners luck ! Keep practicing and remain relaxed when confronted.
I have once, when a drunk tried to pick a fight with me. I didn’t really know what had happened until after I walked away . I basically used wing chun theory with different techniques from othr arts. He tried to grab and pin my arms, which felt like chi sao, so I just sank my centre, tan and bong sau my arms while turning, stuck to his arm’s while jut sau (sp?) down to clear a path, went for his centre to phoenix fist his throat, then yanking it down in a eagle claw grip, took his balance, before walking to his centre, to palm strike his chest.
It was kind of disturbing just how simple it was, so I just turned and walked away quickly. Afterwards it made me want to train a little harder, because of the fact, I was still unprepared for the attack and just went blank and countered, ie I don’t want to be mindless target.
Ars Vitae,
You did everything just perfect. Using no thought and just pure reaction. You should be content that your training has paid off.
any of you guys spar as part of your training?
and if so did it help?
Kie
chain punches
Chain punches are really just a drill to keep you bringing you opposite hand back to the elbow regardless of the technique you use with the other hand. That way you are always ready. They are not meant to necessarily be used in a fight.
Re: chain punches
Originally posted by Wilson
Chain punches are really just a drill to keep you bringing you opposite hand back to the elbow regardless of the technique you use with the other hand. That way you are always ready. They are not meant to necessarily be used in a fight.
Disagree. Chain punches. in my experience can be used during the initial entry phase and for finishing. Haven’t we all seen them being applied after the opponent’s Center is taken in Chi-Sao?
As an entry tool I use them as a continuous attack until contact is made, meaning either I hit an obstruction or his head.
Jim
wilson
If you wanted to throw more than one punch in a fight continuesly how would you do it ?
I think the chain punch has its uses but to me its more a desperate act then anything else as it leaves you pretty vulnerable. I think the amount of chain punching those WT guys do is insanity! why commit yourself so much like that?
Wilson
While for the most part I agree with you, chain punches can have use in a real fight. For example if you’ve created an opening why fire one punch to his face when you can fire 3,4 or 5? I also use them against styles that turn their backs on you to kick or back fist-just rush in and pound the back of the head. I just think too many people in WCK over use them. Some people like to rush at you doing chain punches hoping that they’ll hit something which is a bad tactic and will most likely result in a good beat down. At least it’s not like the JKD version where they just run at you churning the air, those are even easier to stop.
Originally posted by red5angel
I think the chain punch has its uses but to me its more a desperate act then anything else as it leaves you pretty vulnerable. I think the amount of chain punching those WT guys do is insanity! why commit yourself so much like that?
At some point during entry an attack via a strike must be made. The most logical strike during entry is a punch - agreed?
How does the punch leave you vulnerable?
- The closed fist allows for maximum protection of the hand.
- The punch(s) occupies the Centerline.
- The punch forces the opponent to react.
- The punches can be applied in a continous fluid manner
If there is no contact - meaning the opponent has moved - the only logical tactic is to continue the attack - agreed? In most cases the opponent has moved only slightly out of range by a side step (circling) . In this case we must re-face. If one is to maintain the attack as fast as possible the next chain punch is only 2 tenths of a second behind the first one and fires naturally in a re-face situation. I fail to see what better tool there is to apply the idiom ‘Stick and follow’ at least applying to entry. If anyone can suggest one please do.
I have never had a problem attacking with continuous punches and in fact have had much success. I’ve found more of a problem when/if trying to use a single isolated attack - the chain punches are fluid and ‘pour’ over the Centerline and enemy until he ‘answers’ the question - meaning we have a bridge - I am not suggesting a robotic chain attack after bridging because the bridge means that he answered the question - it could take one punch to bridge or five - it matters not. Please note I am not talking about a counter entry movement but an attacking entry.
This also applies to a disengagement. “Freed hand shoots forward..” In this case we give chase to the opponent who runs, or turns away, which I find is most of them.
Here is a nice clip of chain punches being applied in a fluid and logical manner with facing - note the concept(s) being applied. (Not my lineage)
http://www.fightauthority.com/movies/accion2.wmv
Jim
What you are saying sounds good in theory and in chi sao or against a non resisting opponent but the fact remains that chain punch is low level and in many cases won’t do more than annoy an experienced fighter. Your description also relies on the opponent having no or very slow footwork since most anyone at all will not allow you to stick in that manner and will most likely hop out of your way. I know I personally would not use chain punches to enter as it would leave you vernerable to takedowns. I think Traditional Wing Chun (not my lineage) has some better entry techniques that might be worth your time to investigate.
Originally posted by BeiKongHui
What you are saying sounds good in theory and in chi sao or against a non resisting opponent but the fact remains that chain punch is low level and in many cases won’t do more than annoy an experienced fighter. Your description also relies on the opponent having no or very slow footwork since most anyone at all will not allow you to stick in that manner and will most likely hop out of your way. I know I personally would not use chain punches to enter as it would leave you vernerable to takedowns. I think Traditional Wing Chun (not my lineage) has some better entry techniques that might be worth your time to investigate.
Okay, if it sounds good in Wing Chun theory then in my book its good Wing Chun 
You said that a ‘good’ opponent is too fast/good for this. By ‘this’ is seems you mean facing and sticking, etc. Facing and sticking is what Wing Chun is all about so if you mean that the system simply doesn’t work, then again I disagree. Wing Chun is simply the most efficient way to move in combat that’s what the system is all about.
The 'Traditional Wing Chun ’ entry IMO is flawed as discussed below from another forum. You say that you are not of that lineage so I would ask you what your lineage teaches? I am still open to any suggestions…
The ‘entry technique’ of Sigung William Cheung is an excellent example of bridging the gap into contact and exchange range. It allows the practitioner to close on opponent with both safety and the element of surprise. A fast skipping motion forwards with a Bil Sao thrust toward the opponent’s eyes, combined with a raising of the lead knee to protect the lower and middle gates, allows the practitioner to bridge the gap and also draws the opponent’s guard up, allowing contact to be made with the arms, where Chi Sao reflexes can take over.
regards, Peter.
Thanks, I do appreciate the entry move that Si Bok Leung uses and I have tried it but I have two problems with it.
-
Open handed (fake) entry (Biu sao)
-
Unrooted entry (Raised Leg)
The open Biu Sao to me is a bit risky. Because it is, in this context, a fake (I assume) and an open handed one making it vulnerable to being broken in a clash or countered since it is not an actual attack that need be blocked - assuming it’s a fake.
If I recall we were taught and in any case I do believe for the time being that a closed fist with an intended target is better for entry.
The raised leg, while perhaps good for countering some kicks leaves the horseless, hopping enterer highly vulnerable to a grappler’s low shoot, which in this position could not be defended.
Moreover this movement, to me, doesn’t really fit in with the adaptive nature of the system. To make a habit of this move for ‘all occasions’ IMO could be hazardous to your health.
Jim
Hi Peter,
What would you do if a JKD man answer your entry by inflicting pain on your Biu hand/arm with a knuckle rap to open for his straight blast entry? Again, he could move a little out of range and when you land your foot down would kick your front knee to force its withdrawal and immediately follow up with a take down?
Regards,
Chain punches - too predictable. Why would you use any technique so many times in a row? Only if you were connecting on each one. Chain punching is better when you use it like a boxer’s “1-2”. or “1-2-3” at most. The delivery mechanic is fine, I am simply talking about how to apply it. Now if your opponent is so shaken up that he can’t defend himself, put him down any way you like.
Not “1-2-3-4-5-6-…” against a competent opponent. You will get sidekicked or dumped on your ass. Even lop sao’d. You also may punch yourself tired.
Wilson - where do you train in Philly?
Originally posted by fa_jing
Chain punches - too predictable. Why would you use any technique so many times in a row?
I ususally only takes 1 or 2. As I wrote in the last post(s), If you attack and he moves you must re-face and attack. If you attack and a bridge is made then it’s time to stick. This all assumes that range is correct. I do not mean that one should simply throw chain punches from start to finish.
In this context if you attack with a punch and you miss then if you don’t continue the attack in this way then you must disengage, which IMO is neither required or desired.
Jim
Training in Philly
Fa_jing,
I actually train outside of Philly, near Exton, PA. My instructor’s name is Ben LaFrance. He is under Keith Mazza (who is under William Cheung) out of New Jersey. Been with him for over 4 years and before that was training in JKD and Muay Thai for about 4 years.
I agree that using them as a 1-2 or 1-2-3 is good after you’ve affected the oppenent. I see a lot of people training chain punches and they look like they’re a boxer hitting a speed bag. Just rolling over with no emphasis on power or control. There are so many other things to do after contact. I either want to hit the opponent to the ground quickly or keep him close with other techniques after the punch connects. Why keep hitting him back and chasing with 5+ punches?
I maintain that chain punches are more a drill to keep your hands coming back to the elbow. If you’re going to punch, absolutely hit on center line with them. But to roll and roll and roll doesn’t make sense.
Shäolin
Do you have any San Sao experience? It seems to me that you are trapped in the Moy Yat tunnel vision of Chi Sao only. Are you still just allowed to hit your partner in the chest? Do start from a no contact position? In a real fight you will not be allowed to stick like you do in chi sao. I would suggest you read the book on the combat philosophy of Wong Shun Leung by David Peterson for some insight into more realistic uses of WCK.
Also, that argument against the TWC entry was pretty weak. I did a similar entry when I did San Shou which allows clinching and throwing and I never had a problem with being “unrooted” but then I’ve practiced one legged SLT.
You know a good saying I like to remember is that “He who only has a hammer sees only nails.”
Fa-Jing,
You’d only chainpunch when a clear target presents itself. Just chain punching serves little purpose unless you want to recover a lost centreline where it can be very useful (try it in sparring)
I am with Shaolin - also the chain punch involves a great deal of precise footwork. I have heard a lot of people stating it’s low skill but I think it’s a lot harder to do it right than many people think. Getting the 0/100 weight on the back leg reduces the effect of an attempted sweep or trip.
The reason why WT use it from day one of training is that it’s hard to counter against and it’s quite effective - also it’s a very frequently used technique so it becomes a core skill that can be called upon instinctively - in many situations it’s all that is needed.
That said, there are other things to train in WC as well !
Wilson - check your Private Messages.