Busted TCM practitioners

Nei Jia: the Qigong and Taijiquan Forum Traditional Chinese Medicine
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This is in the same vein as our Busted Martial Artists thread. Actually, things have been pretty quiet here lately so I thought I’d post a few news items.

Cops: Acupuncture business owner causes ruckus at Scarsdale shop
By Leslie Korngold • lkorngol@lohud.com • August 25, 2009

SCARSDALE - An agitated acupuncture business owner damaged a Dunkin’ Donuts cash register and a Scarsdale police holding cell last night, police said.

Police said Damien Chang, 42, of Mahopac, the proprietor of Za Oh Pyung Acupuncture, 6 Depot Place, next door to the 10 Depot Place Dunkin’ Donuts, was yelling at doughnut shop employees and throwing his arms in the air when police arrived, Lt. Bryant Clark said.

Chang had punched the store’s cash register, breaking it, Clark said.

Outside, he gestured at police and made verbal threats, Clark said.

At the double trailer police are temporarily housed in, Chang kicked the holding cell door, causing major damage to it, Clark said.

Chang has been charged with second- and third-degree criminal mischief, felonies, and disorderly conduct, a violation.

Police do not know what caused the 10:19 p.m. blowup.

Clark said it took time to identify Chang in part due to a language barrier. Chang was being held at the Westchester County jail until his court appearance tomorrow.

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I knew there would be more…

…it was just a matter of time.

51 and 46. Cue the Grandma MMA thread.

Queens women face illegal massage charges in N. Massapequa
October 27, 2009 By JOSEPH MALLIA joseph.mallia@newsday.com

Nassau police on Monday afternoon arrested two women on charges of giving illegal massages to undercover detectives at a North Massapequa salon, police said. Neither woman had a massage license as required by state law.

While massaging a detective who pretended to be a customer, one of the woman offered to have sex for money and was also charged with prostitution.

The women, ages 51 and 46, both of Flushing, gave the massages to the plainclothes detectives at Qigong Tuina/Acupressure, Acupuncture Bodywork, at 898A North Broadway. In addition to the single prostitution charge, both women were charged with unauthorized practice of a profession and possession of a forged instrument. No details about the forgery charges were provided in a Tuesday police report.

They were set for arraignment Tuesday in First District Court, Hempstead.

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[QUOTE=GeneChing;966886]… and possession of a forged instrument. [/QUOTE]

Hmm… I wonder what that forged instrument was, exactly?

ox

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ok, these tui-na/acupuncture/massage places are popping up all over the place. I know of one “clinic” in my area that is known for their “happy endings.”
At first, since I am studying tui-na, I’m starting to notice these places more and more, and I was thinking,“Wow, there are an awful lot of people doing tui-na. I had no idea it was so popular.”

I wonder if my health insurance covers a rub n’ tug?

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[QUOTE=TenTigers;967125]ok, these tui-na/acupuncture/massage places are popping up all over the place. I know of one “clinic” in my area that is known for their “happy endings.”
At first, since I am studying tui-na, I’m starting to notice these places more and more, and I was thinking,“Wow, there are an awful lot of people doing tui-na. I had no idea it was so popular.”
I wonder if my health insurance covers a rub n’ tug?[/QUOTE]

go ahead, take one for the team, Rik… :slight_smile:

but yeah, my “brush” w/these places was one in my old neighborhood that advertised tuina and qigong - I was like, “Hmmm, storefront tuina and qigong in my neighborhood? what a bargain! But soft, let us see what reward Dame Fortune might bestow upon my inquires…”; needless to say, it was immediately obvious the nature of the beast (literally - the old bag was definitey one of the Lee sisters - you know, Ug, Beast & Home…)

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[QUOTE=TenTigers;967125]ok, these tui-na/acupuncture/massage places are popping up all over the place. I know of one “clinic” in my area that is known for their “happy endings.”
At first, since I am studying tui-na, I’m starting to notice these places more and more, and I was thinking,“Wow, there are an awful lot of people doing tui-na. I had no idea it was so popular.”[/QUOTE]When I was a young lad, I really used to think that people went to massage parlours for a massage!

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yep-I told my daughters that they sold canes, wheelchairs and eyeglasses in the Adult Shop. Well, she was eight!

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By Leslie Korngold • lkorngol@lohud.com • August 25, 2009

SCARSDALE - An agitated acupuncture business owner damaged a Dunkin’ Donuts cash register and a Scarsdale police holding cell last night, police said.

Police said Damien Chang, 42, of Mahopac, the proprietor of Za Oh Pyung Acupuncture, 6 Depot Place, next door to the 10 Depot Place Dunkin’ Donuts, was yelling at doughnut shop employees and throwing his arms in the air when police arrived, Lt. Bryant Clark said.

Chang had punched the store’s cash register, breaking it, Clark said.

Outside, he gestured at police and made verbal threats, Clark said.

At the double trailer police are temporarily housed in, Chang kicked the holding cell door, causing major damage to it, Clark said.

Chang has been charged with second- and third-degree criminal mischief, felonies, and disorderly conduct, a violation.

Police do not know what caused the 10:19 p.m. blowup.

Clark said it took time to identify Chang in part due to a language barrier. Chang was being held at the Westchester County jail until his court appearance tomorrow.

i can almost swear i saw this on tv!!! or something at least similar. pretty sure it was this story though!

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That was the opening post on this thread, KTS

Here’s a little more on that Massapequa massage.

Prostitution Arrest in North Massapequa

The Narcotics/Vice Squad reports the arrests of two Queens women for prostitution and performing illegal massages in North Massapequa on Monday, Oct. 26 at 1:50 p.m.

According to detectives, Sioim Sun and Yonghua Huang, both of Flushing Queens, did perform massage therapy on an undercover detective inside of Qigong Tuina/Accupressure, Accupuncture Bodywork located at 898A North Broadway. Sun offered to perform a sexual act, for an additional fee, detectives added.

Sun and Huang, who are not licensed to practice massage therapy, were placed under arrest at 3:15 p.m. Both defendants are being charged with Unauthorized Practice of a Crime and Possession of a Forged Instrument 2nd Degree. Sun is additionally being charged with Prostitution. They were arraigned on Tuesday, Oct. 27 in First District Court, Hempstead.

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[QUOTE=GeneChing;967982]Here’s a little more on that Massapequa massage.[/QUOTE]

it’s interesting about the charge of “illegal massage”; the reason being is that most of these places actually do not advertise massage on their signs, they advertise “bodywork”, which, technically, is not illegal in NY State - this is how all the non-licensed folks who do therapeutic hands-on work (such as Reiki, Zero Balancing, Trager, Alexander Technique, Feldenkreis, Rosen Method, BodyMind Centering, Reflexology, CranialSacral Therapy, Rolfing, etc.) are able to advertise but not get nailed on claiming that they do massage; of course, don’t get me started in general on non-licensed people who offer treatment services to the general public (and I don’t include TCMA teachers who go learn viable dit da in order to treat their own students, that’s totally appropriate, IMPO)

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[QUOTE=KTS;967871]i can almost swear i saw this on tv!!! or something at least similar. pretty sure it was this story though![/QUOTE]

wow, that guy must have some serious kungfu!

damaging the holding cell door with a kick? those things are made to take punishment and NOT get damaged!

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[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;967988]it’s interesting about the charge of “illegal massage”; the reason being is that most of these places actually do not advertise massage on their signs, they advertise “bodywork”, which, technically, is not illegal in NY State - this is how all the non-licensed folks who do therapeutic hands-on work (such as Reiki, Zero Balancing, Trager, Alexander Technique, Feldenkreis, Rosen Method, BodyMind Centering, Reflexology, CranialSacral Therapy, Rolfing, etc.) are able to advertise but not get nailed on claiming that they do massage; of course, don’t get me started in general on non-licensed people who offer treatment services to the general public (and I don’t include TCMA teachers who go learn viable dit da in order to treat their own students, that’s totally appropriate, IMPO)[/QUOTE]

It comes down to professional regulation!
The pair claimed to practice massage therapy but somehow offered to do ‘other therapy/services’ for additional money, which caused the illegal flag to be turned on. As long as protocol in the name of health/wellness has been followed, then the already certified others as Zero Balancing, Trager, Rolfing (they have their own certiication) are within the rules then all is fine.

Appropriatness is a better clue to legal or illegal therapy!

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My wife runs a bodywork office

She’s fully certified and doesn’t advertise at all. Her business is strictly word-of-mouth and she’s constantly dealing with rather obvious undercover cops trying to book appointments. They’re pretty easy to figure out since all of her recommendations are chart-able. So it’s troublesome both ways.

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not quite a bust

Some regulations in Hanoi

Monday ,Nov 09,2009, Posted at: 15:20(GMT+7)
Government to keep tabs on Chinese medicine clinics

The Ministry of Health has ordered provincial health authorities to closely monitor traditional Chinese medicine clinics where Chinese nationals are employed, Pham Vu Khanh, head of the Traditional Medicine Department, said November 8.
A traditional Chinese medicine clinic at an unidentified location with a board in front with the list of ailments the clinic purports to cure. The Government has begun to crack down on dubious practices by such clinics.

Health departments around the country have also been asked to monitor advertisements, medicine prices, and treatment at these clinics as well as issue of licenses for them, and their legal documents.

Many traditional Chinese medicine clinics operate in Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, and major provinces and often make claims in advertisements that they can cure many irremediable diseases.

They also reportedly sell medicines of unclear origins at very high prices and have Chinese nationals working there with false qualifications

There are 64 Chinese doctors known to authorities to be practicing at 54 clinics around the country. In Hanoi alone, there are 23.
By Tr. Kien – Translated by Hoang Yen

And too much heavy metal in some OTC med (at least it’s not balsamic vinegar :eek:)

Recall of proprietary Chinese medicine with excessive heavy metal

Hong Kong (HKSAR) - The Department of Health (DH) today (November 9) urged members of the public not to buy or use a proprietary Chinese medicine (pCm)named “XUE FU ZHU YU TANG” as it was found to have exceeded the heavy metal limit. The product, with batch number P040604, was manufactured in Taiwan and imported by Jin Ja Pharmaceutical Company Limited, a local pCM wholesaler. The appeal was made in view of the detection of levels of lead exceeding the maximum permitted in "XUE FU ZHU YU TANG"during the DH’s surveillance exercise.

A spokesman for the department said chronic exposure to lead may lead to anaemia, joint and muscle pain, brain and kidney damage. The DH inspected the wholesaler this afternoon and instructed the wholesaler to recall the product from the market. Jin Ja Pharmaceutical Company Limited has set up a hotline 2332 5253 to answer public enquiries about the recall arrangement.

Members of the public can also contact the DH’s hotline 2319 8600 during office hours. The spokesman urged members of the public who have used the product to stop taking it immediately and to seek advice from healthcare professionals if they feel unwell. Chinese medicine practitioners who have obtained the product from the wholesaler are advised to withhold the prescription and inform their patients accordingly.

They should submit the product to the wholesaler or the DH’s Chinese Medicines Section on the second floor, Public Health Laboratory Centre, 382 Nam Cheong Street, Kowloon, during office hours.

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moldy drugs…

Maybe the mold was the drug… :rolleyes:

Thursday ,Dec 17,2009, Posted at: 14:00(GMT+7)
Chinese medicine clinics fall foul of health department

Traditional Chinese medicine clinics in Hanoi have been found in breach of several health regulations, said Hanoi’s Department of Health.

Investigators carried out surprise inspections at several clinics on December 16 and discovered a host of violations.

Many Chinese doctors were working without permission from the Vietnamese Government and unlicensed practitioners were discovered working at clinics Truong Giang Trung Quoc, Hoa Viet and a branch of Chinese Medicine on Dai Co Viet Street.

In addition, the clinics were selling medicines at prices higher than health department regulations stipulate.

One clinic at 298 Nguyen Trai Street in district Thanh Xuan, was also found using moldy drugs.

There are 64 Chinese doctors known to authorities practicing at 54 clinics around the country. In Hanoi alone, there are 23 clinics.

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The opposite side of the debate

Considering the size of Singapore and the proliferation of TCM there, these stats aren’t bad at all. I’d be curious to see how they stack up against Western medical doctor complaints.

Complaints against TCM practitioners falling
Posted: 13 January 2010 1312 hrs

SINGAPORE: The number of complaints against practitioners of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) has been falling.

In reply to a question in parliament from Ang Mo Kio GRC MP Lam Pin Min, Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan said there were six complaints last year, seven in 2008 and ten in 2007.

The complaints were mainly related to allegations of professional negligence, misconduct and the misuse of Western medicine.

Dr Lam also asked if TCM practitioners need to be covered by professional indemnity against costs and damages in clinical negligence cases.

To this, Mr Khaw replied that the TCM Practitioners Board encourages all registered TCM practitioners to be covered by professional indemnity insurance on a voluntary basis.

Jan 13, 2010
23 grouses against sinsehs

THE number of registered Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) practitioners in Singapore has grown to 2,421.

And over the past three years, the TCM Practitioners Board received 23 complaints against the registered practitioners: 10 in 2007, seven in 2008 and six last year.

The complaints were mainly related to allegations of professional negligence, misconduct and the misuse of Western medicine, said Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan in a written response to Dr Lam Pin Min, MP for Tanjong Pagar GRC in Parliament on Tuesday.

The TCM Practitioners Board encourages all registered TCM practitioners to be covered by professional indemnity insurance on a voluntary basis.

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arsenic plasters

How many Dr. Wangs & vendor Zhaos are there in China? :rolleyes:

TCM doctor sells lethal medicine

A traditional Chinese medicine doctor surnamed Wang with more than 20 years of experience has been charged with the accidental murder of two patients, the Beijing Times reported yesterday.

Wang bought plasters and other traditional Chinese forms of medicine from an unlicensed vendor surnamed Zhao in April 2009. He sold them on to two patients surnamed Liu and Li in May, but they died shortly afterwards. Tests confirmed that the plasters contained lethal doses of arsenic.

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[QUOTE=GeneChing;968093]She’s fully certified and doesn’t advertise at all. Her business is strictly word-of-mouth and she’s constantly dealing with rather obvious undercover cops trying to book appointments. They’re pretty easy to figure out since all of her recommendations are chart-able. So it’s troublesome both ways.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=mawali;968016]It comes down to professional regulation!
The pair claimed to practice massage therapy but somehow offered to do ‘other therapy/services’ for additional money, which caused the illegal flag to be turned on. As long as protocol in the name of health/wellness has been followed, then the already certified others as Zero Balancing, Trager, Rolfing (they have their own certiication) are within the rules then all is fine.

Appropriatness is a better clue to legal or illegal therapy![/QUOTE]

here’s my issue w/unlicensed practitioners: if all you are doing is treating friends and family and not receiving any payment, go for it; however, as soon as you start treating the general public, especially if you are advertising treatment for clinical conditions (and word of mouth is still advertising) and especially if you are taking payment for it, the issue is this: ANY treatment that has the potential to address a clinical condition, has the potential to harm; if it doesn’t, then it’s not skilled therapy (sorry, no free lunches - if the reiki people think it’s all good, then good for them, but getting attuned, while not a bad thing, is not skill acquisition, and the way one applies things of that sort has nothing to do with clinical acumen); if it’s not skilled therapy, then there’s no reason to train in it or to charge for it; if one is applying a technique that requires skilled application, either in appropriateness (requiring clinical reasoning skills as to type of condition, state of patient, etc.), or in delivery (selection / duration / frequency / amplitude of application, etc.), then there is always the possibility that the patient will have an adverse effect if the therapy is improperly applied; if there is improper application and the patient experiences an untoward effect, then the possibility of negligence arises; if there was negligence, then the practitioner needs to be held accountable for that negligence; if the practitioner is licensed, then the client has recourse both in terms of filing a complaint with the appropriate licensing agency or a lawsuit - the point is that the practitioner is able to be held accountable for their actions;
on the flip side, if one sees an unlicensed bodyworker and afterwards has some bad effect, that’s too bad for you: the client has no recourse, and there is no accountability on the part of the practitioner - you can’t get their license revoked and you can’t sue them, because there is no means by which what they did can be held to any standard of care; the best you might do is have them brought up on charges for illegal activities, but good luck if they contend that they were not doing something that they were legally barred from doing - how do you prove it?
don’t get me wrong - I am not saying that unlicensed people lack skill, but if they are skilled and want to do what they do for a living, then they need to consider how to best protect the interests of their clients, and getting licensed (not just certified, as these are private entities doing that, not the state) is the ethical way to do that;

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[QUOTE=GeneChing;984046]How many Dr. Wangs & vendor Zhaos are there in China? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

There are multiple violations here!

  1. Unlicensed TCM practitioner
  2. The company/individual who sold the arsenic laced plaster
  3. A combination of the QA/QC (both internal and external) personnel who approved and signed off that the product was safe!
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Busted TCM

14%. Yikes.

Western ingredients and fourth-grade toxins found in Chinese medicine
Updated Friday, February 26, 2010 9:53 am TWN, The China Post news staff

The Consumers’ Foundation of Chinese Taipei found 14 percent of the Chinese medicine contains ingredients of western medicine, and even discovered fourth-grade toxin in some of the examined Chinese medicine, local media reported yesterday.

Conducting a test on Chinese medicine available to the public in 2009, the foundation found 26 of the 187 Chinese medicine samples contain Western ingredients and 35 percent of the problematic medicine was imported from China. Pain-relieve medication was the most dangerous as 7 of the 16 tested samples were found mixed with western medicine.

With the result of the test similar to that of 2008, it seems the problem of Chinese medicine mixed with western medicine has not been improved, added Hsieh Tien-jen, chairman of the foundation.

Diazepam (), a mental tranquilizer, also a kind of fourth-grade toxin, was found in 3 samples. However, they were prescribed to cure constipation. Despite no severe immediate problems, this ingredient is likely to cause addiction after long-term use, said Yu Kai-hsiung, the publisher of the foundation’s magazine

As for the examination of heavy metal content of Chinese medicine, only three out of the 228 samples did not conform to the current regulation, which requires the content to be lower than 100 parts per million (ppm). Compared with Hong Kong’s rule which demands the content to be below 15 pmm, the looser rule in Taiwan should be adjusted as some patients do suffer from lead poisoning after they take Chinese medicines with an excess of heavy metal, explained Hsieh.