Building strength the TCMA way

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Training and Health
81

[QUOTE=Vash;1132063]So, MightyB, if someone uses weight training too:

Enhance “health” (defined for the purposes of this post as the correct play between organs and organ systems)

Improve martial “performance” (defined for the purposes of this post as the technically correct use of existing attributes)

AND

Improve “appearance” (defined for the purposes of this post as the physical presentation of the body)

using methods culled from sources which include “bodybuilding” (defined for the purposes of this post as the use of resistance training to enhance the size of a muscle/group, with other attribute effects not being considered), then

someone is into the same gender?

I would posit the attitudes regarding resistance training are rooted in the same place as the attitudes regarding fans of one genre of niche fiction looking at another group:

“It’s different, it sucks.”[/QUOTE]

Weight training is ok if you have a rational reason and a sport specific methodology - doing curls for the mirror, well… there’s a pole for you to smoke.

Speaking of poles - just take a look at a fraction of what YouKnowWho has posted… pics and videos. There’s one where he’s using his leg to suspend himself on a pole. I dare you to attempt it… - a body builder doesn’t deserve to smoke the pole that he’s using - and they think they’re tough. Old Skool strength vs bodybuilding DBs.

82

Lol I better be, I put in my dues mofo… Le douche!

83

[QUOTE=IronWeasel;1132076]Lol…

Now that was kinda funny![/QUOTE]

That wasn’t “kinda” funny - it was freak’n hilarious. You have to give it to IronFist - he burnt me good. :smiley:

84

[QUOTE=Lucas;1132081]Lol I better be, I put in my dues mofo… Le douche![/QUOTE]

You said the secret word!

Ahhhhhhhhh!

Anybody else get where I’m coming from though seriously? This thread is supposed to be about TCMA weight training techniques. Well - YouKnowWho has a ton of them. They work. They’ll sculpt your body… and they give you functional strength. Now we have modern sport science… and there’s plenty of good material that we can use to enhance our martial abilities. BUT - none of that is bodybuilding. People post pics of bodybuilders in their man thongs doing the splits and be little true TCMAists (before I started posting) for pointing out that bodybuilding is relatively useless for our sport. WTF! You guys suck. Bodybuilding is masturbation for the g@ys. I’d be scared to do BJJ with a bodybuilder for fear of them getting an erection! MMA uses old school strength and strongman techniques. Those work. Those are for functional strength. Doing every version of bench press angle possible in a periodization schedule (which has proven to be a waste of time) is stupid and only for self gratification.

85

sounds like you have issues with big bad bullies from your past

86

[QUOTE=MightyB;1132080]Weight training is ok if you have a rational reason and a sport specific methodology - doing curls for the mirror, well… there’s a pole for you to smoke.[/quote]

How does one define the physical preparation specificity of what is intended to be “general physical preparation?”

Also, positively improving the appearance is “pole-smoking” worthy? Does this extend to ab work, pushups, pullups, deadlifts, etc? What about to less training-related things, such as wearing cologne, clean clothes, coming the hair?

Speaking of poles - just take a look at a fraction of what YouKnowWho has posted… pics and videos. There’s one where he’s using his leg to suspend himself on a pole.

I have - both interesting and very useful.

I dare you to attempt it…

I know, “pics or it didn’t happen,” but I have used non-weight-set tools, such as the shorter balance stands, makiwara, bean-bag for finger strikes, strapped flexible cords (of wood) for specific throwing and lifting movements, as well as several well-crafted Okinawa-origin hojo undo tools. All were challenging, many are in my current training regimen in some form.

  • a body builder doesn’t deserve to smoke the pole that he’s using - and they think they’re tough. Old Skool strength vs bodybuilding DBs.

I feel strange being a “body-building backer,” as focus primarily on my health (specifically back health from three breaks and dislocated tailbone) and performance (using the definitions from my previous post), but I think attention should be given to the bolded portion of your quote.

Is it the weight training techniques of bodybuilding to which you object, or the attitudes of people engaged in that activity, with which you’ve had negative interaction?

I am going to categorically state that body-building training, specifically the hypertrophy of muscle as the primary training goal (accompanied by the increased caloric intake noted by Sanjuro_Ronin as unnecessary for MA training goals) is not the best way for a martial artist to train.

I would suggest, though, that training with some of the same techniques as hypertrophy or general physique-minded people, would positively impact the development of trainees.

87

[QUOTE=bawang;1132088]sounds like you have issues with big bad bullies from your past[/QUOTE]

Did you not see my pic? I am a big bad bully :smiley:

Sorry Bawang - I know you’re interested in weight lifting. It’s good - just don’t fall into the trap of muscles for muscles sake. There’s a method behind the madness of my posts. Using Pereto Principle, modern sports training and traditional training methods, you can come up with a good routine for developing functional strength… It DOES include weight training - but there’s a difference between that and body building.

88

[QUOTE=Vash;1132091]How does one define the physical preparation specificity of what is intended to be “general physical preparation?”

Also, positively improving the appearance is “pole-smoking” worthy? Does this extend to ab work, pushups, pullups, deadlifts, etc? What about to less training-related things, such as wearing cologne, clean clothes, coming the hair?

I have - both interesting and very useful.

I know, “pics or it didn’t happen,” but I have used non-weight-set tools, such as the shorter balance stands, makiwara, bean-bag for finger strikes, strapped flexible cords (of wood) for specific throwing and lifting movements, as well as several well-crafted Okinawa-origin hojo undo tools. All were challenging, many are in my current training regimen in some form.

I feel strange being a “body-building backer,” as focus primarily on my health (specifically back health from three breaks and dislocated tailbone) and performance (using the definitions from my previous post), but I think attention should be given to the bolded portion of your quote.

Is it the weight training techniques of bodybuilding to which you object, or the attitudes of people engaged in that activity, with which you’ve had negative interaction?

I am going to categorically state that body-building training, specifically the hypertrophy of muscle as the primary training goal (accompanied by the increased caloric intake noted by Sanjuro_Ronin as unnecessary for MA training goals) is not the best way for a martial artist to train.

I would suggest, though, that training with some of the same techniques as hypertrophy or general physique-minded people, would positively impact the development of trainees.[/QUOTE]

We’re almost on the same page… I’ll put it in terms that my old track coach used when he lead us to our first regional victory on our mile relay team - he said… “Use curls to get the girls, but squats will win the race.” We then went into then advanced conditioning and plyometric technical training. You see, what he was getting at is the mindset. Why are you in the weight room? Is it to be a better athlete? Then there’s a specific way that you’ll train. If it’s to make big arms so you have big arms - well that’s a different training all together.

89

[QUOTE=md1;1131952]Old school ST - Carrying 5 gal pails of mud, 1 in each hand sometimes 2 in each down a plank and then having to lift them over your head and dump them. Carrying / stacking 12” block, stacking 12” block from the ground on the scaffold 5 or 6 high.
Wheelbarrow concrete, pulling yards of concrete with a come along, finishing concrete, any chimney work. I could go on forever.
Muscles worked – chest, back, legs, stomach/core, shoulders and of course a killer grip.

Find a job as a Mason or Mason laborer, you might regret getting yelled at all day..lol but you won’t regret the fact that it puts muscles in your ****.

I don’t know… worked for my MA ST[/QUOTE]

RESPECT
In MMA, we beware of guys like you - we call it that “crazy old man strength”. We always are more wary of the construction or iron workers cuz they’ll get you with that “crazy old man strength”. The preppy body builders… meh- Even our smallest guy will have them tapping in the first round.

90

[QUOTE=Lucas;1131904]this has been my experience. I didn’t start any weight training until I was an adult and after I had already been training kungfu for some time. I came here and got advice, and used it. I got stronger, a little bigger and I got faster. It elevated my power in every respect. I’m not a power lifter or bodybuilder, I just try to supplement my martial art.[/QUOTE]

I can respect this.

91

[QUOTE=TenTigers;1131909]if you lift properly, using full range of motion, you can actually increase flexibility, rather than lose it.
If you train explosive movements, you can increase speed.
When you are powerlifting, the act of getting the weight in motion from a standstill is actually an explosive movement, although to the eye it may not seem so.
Stiff, musclebound people in Martial Arts are usually the case of a non-martial artist, who trained with weights first, rather than the other way around. Once you are trained, you know how to relax.[/QUOTE]

Dat be true too.

Pay attention to what I bolded.

92

its one thing to be small but strong, but you look like an anorexic woman

i mean, if you are afraid to look big, just dont train the biceps.

93

[QUOTE=MightyB;1132004]Those pics are so g@y.

Be strong enough to do what you want to do. Sport Specific training is better than body building. Body builders are usually the biggest douches in the kwoon. They look like jack offs and usually are jack offs. The guys who weight train and do sport specific stuff are usually lean, not bulky. Bulky is bulky and it’s awkward. There’s a difference between a gymnast’s body and the Muscle Beach body and how it functions. As martial artists, we want the gymnast’s body.[/QUOTE]

Lol I tell you what go compete in a non weight class MMA event, or sanda against the bulky big guys and see how you do :o)

These comments are usually made by guys weight about 140 pounds, the first time an 85kg bodybuilder simply curled his way out of my 93kg arm bar I gained a new respect for bodybuilder, PS this guy put the same dedication and attention to detail in his grappling as he did his bodybuilding and thus cleaned up in every comp he entered

94

[QUOTE=MightyB;1132012]Narrator: [looking at a Calvin Klein ad on a bus] Is that what a man looks like?
Tyler Durden: [laughs] Self-improvement is masturbation. Now self-destruction…

Body building is a form of masturbation - maybe it’s fun, but there’s no point. Ooh I lift to get big <cough *g@y cough> Who you trying to impress, other lifters - cuz that’s well - you know what that is. Besides - the hot women I know like fit men, they’re grossed out by the lifters.

Anyway - the strongest people I know are farmers and furniture movers - they don’t look like body builders.

Now if you’re doing curls to get better at defending a kimura - or you doing explosive bench to build fast twitch so you can master a transition - there’s something to gain by doing so. Bulking and bodybuilding - bah, it’s well, you know what it is.[/QUOTE]

Ronny coleman deadlifts in the 700-800 pound range before bodybuilding comps, franco Colombo as well as being a champion bodybuilder was also a world class powerlifter andd boxer, (you practise dancing around like a mantis bug and you call these guys public m8asterbators :o) )

The strongest guys I know are powerlifters, some of them have also done bodybuilding go figure

95

[QUOTE=MightyB;1132084]You said the secret word!

Ahhhhhhhhh!

Anybody else get where I’m coming from though seriously? This thread is supposed to be about TCMA weight training techniques. Well - YouKnowWho has a ton of them. They work. They’ll sculpt your body… and they give you functional strength. Now we have modern sport science… and there’s plenty of good material that we can use to enhance our martial abilities. BUT - none of that is bodybuilding. People post pics of bodybuilders in their man thongs doing the splits and be little true TCMAists (before I started posting) for pointing out that bodybuilding is relatively useless for our sport. WTF! You guys suck. Bodybuilding is masturbation for the g@ys. I’d be scared to do BJJ with a bodybuilder for fear of them getting an erection! MMA uses old school strength and strongman techniques. Those work. Those are for functional strength. Doing every version of bench press angle possible in a periodization schedule (which has proven to be a waste of time) is stupid and only for self gratification.[/QUOTE]

Bull go look up joe defranco, he trains pro athletes in all sports including MMA and college wrestling and guess what, 80% of his programme is body building reps and sets, he does a max effort lift, then high rep stuff just like the old school body builders did, you sound like an ****phobic idiot who should really be banned and who doesn’t have a clue about anything to do with training

96

[QUOTE=Taixuquan99;1132070]Worked a lot of construction over the years. Guys go into three groups:

  1. Tough mf’s who are useful when you need to unload a box truck full of 4x8 MDF.

  2. Wussies who are probably going to damage at least twenty dollars worth of supplies.

Of the first group, lifelong construction workers, and guys who did weights to be strong.

Of the second, skinny guys WHO HADN’T DONE TEN YEARS OF CONSTRUCTION and ALL BODY SCULPTORS.

Never once saw a strong body sculptor at work. Never understood how someone with larger muscles than me could be so weak.

Also know of a former Russian olympic weights coach, strong as hell, not as big as that(has mass, but not rediculous mass), but STRONG.

Big is fine if it’s also strong.[/QUOTE]

Now that is RIGHT on the money. We get at least one or 2 of those guys every summer wanting to labor for us… We would kill them by coffee at 10:00 and most of them wouldn’t come back after lunch… hahahahaha

Big muscles are cool i guess but if you can’t do crap with them what’s the point.

97

[QUOTE=IronFist;1132052]lol @ saying bodybuilding is gay right after saying you gained some muscle.

Sounds like you’re 10 pounds gayer than you were when that pic was taken.[/QUOTE]

now that’s some funny ****!! hahahahha

98

For those of you saying doing bicep curls are useless, strong biceps help very much for pummeling as well as developing good under/over hooks in the clinch. Anything that builds functional strength is going to help you, and most weight lifting and body building does.:wink:

99

[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1132161]For those of you saying doing bicep curls are useless, strong biceps help very much for pummeling as well as developing good under/over hooks in the clinch. Anything that builds functional strength is going to help you, and most weight lifting and body building does.;)[/QUOTE]

Your correct is both strong, and applied with proper internal/external integration.

100

[QUOTE=Frost;1132121]Bull go look up joe defranco, he trains pro athletes in all sports including MMA and college wrestling and guess what, 80% of his programme is reps and sets, he does a max effort lift, then high rep stuff just like the old school body builders did[/QUOTE]

Fixed it for you. Walk into your local iron works gym. Watch what happens. Body builders do every version of bench possible - incline, decline, standard, inside grip, outside grip, flies - maybe they max weight - but no max rep, no 100% muscle fatigue… half their lifts are wrong - they don’t go full range - and usually their spotter does most of the work. They are lifting for the mirror and are trying to impress the other gym muscles. Preacher curls - usually too much weight, too little range… goes on and on. Why? Because they have no reason to be there. No goal.

Weight training - you have a goal. Maybe you go to a smith machine, put 120 or 130 pounds on it, put up the rubber stoppers to keep from killing yourself, lower the weight slowly - literally throw it on the press so that it leaves your hands, catch and slowly lower. Body builders are like “WTF is that?”. Sport specific athletes know you’re working fast twitch.