And how does a bundle of bamboo resolves the issue?
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1131650]You are thinking “sport specific” training and that’s fine.
Lets go with that then:
What are you doing in that picture John?[/QUOTE]
i have this strange feeling…like we have been here before…many times
[QUOTE=Frost;1131660]i have this strange feeling…like we have been here before…many times[/QUOTE]
Not from John that I recall.
But I know where he is going with this and in some ways I agree, certain old school methods seem ideal for certain old school results.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1131658]And how does a bundle of bamboo resolves the issue?[/QUOTE]
The harder that you push, the harder that the cane bundle will resist. You then “borrow” the resistence and reverse your force direction. This way you can train “borrow force” when you don’t have training partner.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1131661]Not from John that I recall.
But I know where he is going with this and in some ways I agree, certain old school methods seem ideal for certain old school results.[/QUOTE]
ive had the whole specific v general discussion with him before, for me the specific is pointless without the groundwork built by the general work…and for me general is best build by free weights and specific by actual sports practise
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1131661]certain old school methods seem ideal for certain old school results.[/QUOTE]
Modern still cannot replace tradition.
[QUOTE=Frost;1131664] and specific by actual sports practise[/QUOTE]
We don’t always have training partner 24/7.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1131662]The harder that you push, the harder that the cane bundle will resist. You then “borrow” the resistence and reverse your force direction. This way you can train “borrow force” when you don’t have training partner.[/QUOTE]
And “Bands” can’t solve that problem?
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1131667]And “Bands” can’t solve that problem?[/QUOTE]
If you are talking about rubberband, it will give you resistence when you pull, but it won’t give you resistence when your push. In the modern training, you may be able to develop strong pulling or strong pushing. It doesn’t mean that you can apply both at the same time.
[QUOTE=Frost;1131664]ive had the whole specific v general discussion with him before, [/QUOTE]
When similiar subject starts, similiar posts will be included. This thread is special for “TCMA way”. As a TCMA believer, it’s hard not for me to take this opportunity to indicate that:
“modern is not always better than tradition”.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1131669]If you are talking about rubberband, it will give you resistence when you pull, but it won’t give you resistence when your push.
When similiar subject starts, similiar posts will be included. This thread is special for “TCMA way”. As a TCMA believer, it’s hard not for me to take this opportunity to indicate that:
“modern does not always better than tradition”.[/QUOTE]
Re" bands, they were an example and my point was have you tried to design a training tool with modern materials?
No, modern doesn’t always = better, but lets not forget that there is nothing modern about ST, the only difference now is the materials we use and our knowledge of WHY the body works this way.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1131672]have you tried to design a training tool with modern materials?[/QUOTE]
I assume something like this will work too.
http://www.robbinssports.com/century-cardio-wavemaster-training-bag-punching-dummy-p-6795.html
is there a modern equivelant to that exercise?
I use…barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells, body weight and rubberbands for resitance training.
I also use isometric and isotonic (dynamic tension) sets for some focused refined resistance.
stone locks etc are ok, but we don’t have to use 300 year old designs to get the effect of 50 cent to a dollar a pound iron dumbells or x2 the cost for kettlebells.
I also use rings for set training, heavy weapons such as Kwan do with Iron pole instead of wood, heavyweight training blades on broadsword and on wu dip do.
Anyway, pretty typical resistance training for strength except for the rings, the dynamic tension sets and the heavy weapons, the rest is normal lifting.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1131675]I assume something like this will work too.
I like yours better 
building strength the tcma way:
three eyed god lifts the mountain: squat
holding the heavens: shoulder press
thousand pound crusher: squat press
hunyuan ball: atlas ball
presenting the iron seal/diamond god uproots tree: deadlift
[QUOTE=Frost;1131598]If anything using modern methods of external strength training alongside traditional methods is even more important in this day and age, most old time TCMA guys came from a rural background, lifting heavy things and building strength was all part of their day to day work it is not these days, thus they had a good base of strength and endurance to work from[/QUOTE]
This is an excellent point not often mentioned. My father and uncles grew up on the farm, worked a professional tuna boat, and did other labor their whole lives, and although I never saw any of them do any actual ST exercises, they remained impressively strong their entire lives, even into old age. Hard labor builds not only strength but physical/mental ruggedness as well. That’s the kind of strength that old-time CMA practitioners had. In addition, many of those practitioners did system-specifec, specialized ST methods as well. People nowadays who do not come from such a background, cannot discount the importance of ST for their MA.
kung fu has strength training, but nowhere in the intensity as todays modern training.
people need to remember in modern times we have supplements and mountain loads of cheap meat.
weight training is rarely known or taught because they were considered advanced excercises, which is ironic
Decent thread.
I agree that strength training is often neglected in TMA.
As far as developing raw strength (the ability to lift as much weight as possible), nothing beats powerlifting style training for low, heavy reps.
As with anything it depends on your goals. There’s a reason sprinters don’t train by running long distances and why marathoners don’t do barbell squats.
But as long as the people are doing something to get stronger, that puts them way ahead of the “traditional” TMA crew who believes such nonsense as:
- muscles make you slow
- muscles make you inflexible
- “lift with your tendons”
- you don’t need muscle strength because you have qi
- you don’t need to use strength; you need to use technique (sure, technique beats strength if the other guy is a noob, but if you’re both equally good, then strength will often determine the winner, and I dare say there are situations where a very skilled dude who is weak may be defeated by a strong noob, eg., a 140 pound TMA black belt fighting a 250 pound weightlifting street thug)
On that last point, many skinny/weak people who have only trained with other skinny/weak people in their schools are in for a surprise the first time they fight someone who is actually big and strong. This goes triple if they’ve never trained against a resisting opponent (eg. in a school full of people who do tap sparring and leave their arm extended so you can do a 10 hit combo after your opponent punches).
Once we can accept the fact that we all need to do weight training, then we can argue amongst ourselves about which way is correct 
I fully agree with John Allen (of Green Dragon Studios, who used to write for Inside Kung Fu) who said that the majority of kung fu students lack the strength required to make their techniques work.
Also, weightlifting is awesome and helps prevent injury from other situations which might otherwise cause injury, such as lifting something heavy.
[QUOTE=IronFist;1131809]Also, weightlifting is awesome and helps prevent injury from other situations which might otherwise cause injury, such as lifting something heavy.[/QUOTE]
If you would internalize that strength, the heavy would lift you.