I am so excited to have finally found a place such as this, a place where people can share thoughts on religion without trying to proove who is right and who is wrong!
Yay for you guys!
I also believe that all religions are describing ONE God. That different prophets have come to bring people from different times and different cultures to God, and thats why they differ. I think that much is to gain by studying ALL religions BUT meditation is the KEY to ENLIGHTENMENT.
OR prayer. The request line, call up the, call up the line, its the request line…
Originally posted by Taomonkey
[B]Fu-Pow said “Its called Empathy ie putting yourself in someone elses shoes”
I would have to disagree a little bit. Most people miss the simple and profound nature of Love your neighbor as you love yourself, and its not just empathy. Actually it is one of the most taoist statements Jesus made.
to paraphrase…
If you truly love your neighbor as yourself, than you begin to put into practice the concept that as I and my father are one, you and I are one.
If you are I are truly one, and I love you as I love myself,why would I ever lie to myself,it makes no sense. Why would I harm or steal from myself? Why would I covit myself. We should begin to see that our actions upon others are as actions upon ourselves. (karma et. al.) This simple statement takes care of most of the ten comandements.
We back that up with the #1 Love God above all, and follow it with #3 judge not lest the be judged.
Christians have the most basic message and they miss it. The esoterics of Christianity are meaningless untill we master these three simple comandments. Most do a fairly good job of the first one ( love God) we fall short of the second (love your neighbor…) and fail misserably on the third. (judge not) [/B]
That’s what I said.
Truth/Wisdom and Empathy/Compassion.
Love is too ambiguous of a word.
I “love” lots of things and in different ways and for different reasons.
Or, for the selfish types - Karma - what you do affects everyone else and what everyone else does affects you (paraphrasing)- so you better be good for goodness sake!
Then again, there are always those that just enjoy having a crappy time and see everyone else have a crappy time …
I’ve read and have been told of stories implying that Jesus travelled eastwards towards india. Most of what I’ve read (looong time ago) implied that Jesus travelled to India during his ‘desert wandering years’. He studied under a yogi and advanced in training rapidly before heading back west.
There’s all this ‘evidence’ that’s pointed out, but I never really researched any of it. Was interesting, tho’.
Originally posted by TaiChiBob The portrayal of Jesus by the Gnostic Gospels has a decidedly Taoist flavor.
In the contrary, I think overall Orthodoxy is much more amenable to Taoism than Gnosticism is.
On this account, comparing Gnosticism and Orthodoxy respectively: man is a duality of mind and body versus man is a unity of spirit, mind, and body; matter is inherently evil and seperate from truth versus there is a unitary cosmos which is fundamentally good; salvation is limited to a tradition of the elect versus salvation arises from nature to everyone.
The only point of Gnosticism I can think of that is arguably more amenable to Taoism than Orthodoxy is the Gnostic belief that salvation is accepting one’s place in the world and suffering is freedom versus the Orthodox belief of the exact converse.
Of course, there are other differences between Gnosticism and Orthodoxy, but they mostly relate to issues like Christology which are not easily comparable to any position in Taoism.
On the bit of Gnostic Gospel which I’ve read, I’ve this to say:
It doesn’t “feel” the same as, say, a random book from the Orthodox Christian Bible. From what I read, I got the same feeling as I did when reading Nietchse’s later work. Not to say the authors of the Gnostics were insane, just a similar emotional response.
Originally posted by Water Dragon The Bible actually addresses this a lot. Read what the Word has to say about hipocrates and Pharisees. It’s not a pretty picture.
LOL, it may be one word to you, but it’s hundreds and thousands of them to me… And don’t forget that many of these Words were transcribed from campfire stories a couple of hundred years after the events… by crackpots, agitators, empire builders, empire destroyers etc… I prefer to get my enlightenment from sweeping the floor for an old lady up the road (if possible - I’m still working on the details!), it’s not as noisy as all those ancient voices in my head…
And besides, I’m not gonna read the whole damn thing again: would you mind pointing out a couple of relevant passages old chap?
They’d better be good… I know the Bible has a lot to address about a lot of things, but my issue is more with those who maintain they are following the Bible, and behave like complete barstards. As a religion Christianity seems to work fine (well, like Marxism, in theory if not in practise), but as a moral code, I wish that people would work out what’s decent for themselves and through that take some responsibility for their lives.
In terms of moral (as opposed to spiritual) guidance, Jesus was a decent bloke, it seems, but I’d prefer to take my stock from someone who lived a bit more recently, with a bit more relevance to modern times… like Gandhi, or Mandela. That’s if for some reason I wake up one day and forget that I shouldn’t steal, kill people or treat people badly.
First of all, you cannot avoid the “what ifs” because that is all there is. There is nothing solid and there is no gaurantee that the stories of the lives and deeds of religious figures is true.
Oh sure they may have existed according to historical record, but armchair theologians tend to lose their bait early and leave that line dangling.
What i find to be true about these threads is that they are generally either not in agreeance, in agreeance, backslapping or attacking and seeking to be validated for a belief or belief system.
Most of the people including myself who have written in this thread are NOT and I repeate NOT serious students of religion.
Of sure, I took religious studies in Uni some 20 years ago, and probably a lot hasn’t changed, but it is a whole lot of what ifs.
Anyway, like I said, you should hit an interfaith chat board where people can speak with authority in regards to the circular logic of belief and the leap of faith you need to make because there is no actual solid proof of any of it.
Originally posted by FngSaiYuk Vash, what kinda response was it? Depressing, empty, bored?
The response: a strange feeling of minor annoyance. I don’t know, I guess I was wrong in comparing my response to the later works of the big N. They were, more to the point, reminiscient of the Book of Mormon. Seemed a bit contrived.
Mat, you could have just asked me which verse, and I would have happily posted it. As is, quit being a jerk man. We’re just trying to have a decent thread here.
Originally posted by Vash
[B]On the bit of Gnostic Gospel which I’ve read, I’ve this to say:
It doesn’t “feel” the same as, say, a random book from the Orthodox Christian Bible.[/B]
It depends alot on what you’re reading. Gnostic collections tend to include broad mixtures of noncanonical Christian texts to Hermetic mystery literature to Judaic speculative work to Plato. For instance, compare the Gospel of Thomas to the Thunder, Perfect Mind to the Hypostasis of the Archons, all from the Nag Hammadi library.
Originally posted by Water Dragon Mat, you could have just asked me which verse, and I would have happily posted it. As is, quit being a jerk man. We’re just trying to have a decent thread here.
I do quite sincerely apologise. Though in all fairness, although I was being flippant, I wasn’t trying to wind anyone up, and I do stand by what I said.
I do not believe in the Bible as any more than a very very biased and distorted set of personal and very second (third)- hand histories. That’s not to say I’m trying to belittle Christianity, nor is it to say that my opinion (albeit rather crassly put for which I apologised) should be valueless on this thread, or seen as an attack.
The original point I was coming back to in my third paragraph was that I would personally like people to take more responsibility for their lives, and the problem with organised religions based on an almighty being is that they give too many people get-out clauses. That’s what I really wanted to stress, and that’s why I’d be even more interested to read the passages you mentioned WD.
I’m not coming at this from a complete ignorant or unspiritual aspect either: my grandfather was a very pious vicar, and athough my upbringing was very much about leaving my spirituality to myself, my strongest moral/spiritual influence was probably my widowed grandmother, also very pious, and quite genuinely one of the most intelligent, informed, and downright nice people you could ever wish to meet (unfortunately, that didn’t rub off on me!). I was well-read in the scripture (tho I was also well-read in Agatha Christie and books on dinosaurs, but I can’t remember them either!) and wrestled for some time with faith. It choked me out. I then found Buddhism and the Tao.
I’m not just taking the piss, but then I don’t have the time or inclination to justify myself again, so while I would be interested in reading your recommended passages on the subject, that’s about it for me on this thread unless it turns back to the original subject.
And don’t forget that many of these Words were transcribed from campfire stories a couple of hundred years after the events… by crackpots, agitators, empire builders, empire destroyers etc… I prefer to get my enlightenment from sweeping the floor for an old lady up the road (if possible - I’m still working on the details!), it’s not as noisy as all those ancient voices in my head…
