Bruce Lee

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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[QUOTE=k gledhill;1196434]Good clip, he inspired many…Bil Gee is an open ended question , with unlimited answers.

http://youtu.be/depXMeGL3RU[/QUOTE]

It is nice to see a production from his family that contains some of the Oakland footage too. He was a difinitive inspiration for a 10 year old me but I lost interest later in my martial life for other more personal reasons.

On the ‘could he or couldn’t he’ fight note… I have met and talked with 2 of his early students, and I bet some of you here have trained with one of these at least. Both had first hand accounts of witnessing Bruce fight, and learn from the experience, which IS what fighters do isn’t it??

So he kicked ass and had his handed to him too in the earlier days. But once he stepped it up a gear and really became ‘kung fu crazy!’ I don’t think there was anyone around at the time who could even touch him, and his closest friends thought the same.

FWIW He would have also loved the internet!! Haven’t any of you guys read his book ‘Tao of JKD’??? Some serious ramblings in there that wouldn’t be out of place in these very forums imho :slight_smile:

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[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1196640]I’m in LA. Where do you train?[/QUOTE]

I train off and on with the Chinatown JKD/WNG group, but I often don’t have a lot of time because of school.

I have also trained with Ed Monaghan and the late Jerry Poteet.

Where in LA are you? I vaguely remember reading about your move here.

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Jet Li is a martial artist too…So is Steven Segal…hell Even Chuck Norris…

But the only one out the three who has done any real competition is Chuck Norris right?

Im not saying Lee isnt a martial artist…Im just saying he is a bit over rated!!!

Basically his claim to fame is his movies…Furthermore I have yet to see any one from Jeet Kune Do provide any real skill or fighting ability!!!

Forget it about it…Bring the Beimo Back to solve at this jaw jacking and arm chair fighting!

[QUOTE=Jansingsang;1196673]Listen mate do your Research before you start running your gums He did Sparring
He saw himself as a Martial artist first!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVVGZEFQusM[/QUOTE]

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[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;1196732]Jet Li is a martial artist too…So is Steven Segal…hell Even Chuck Norris…

But the only one out the three who has done any real competition is Chuck Norris right?

Im not saying Lee isnt a martial artist…Im just saying he is a bit over rated!!!

Basically his claim to fame is his movies…Furthermore I have yet to see any one from Jeet Kune Do provide any real skill or fighting ability!!!

Forget it about it…Bring the Beimo Back to solve at this jaw jacking and arm chair fighting![/QUOTE]

http://www.youtube.com/jpm2112

http://www.youtube.com/user/jkdwng?feature=results_main

http://www.youtube.com/user/sifubrentlance

http://youtu.be/8KFmkqtMPd4

You really are that ignorant, aren’t you? Come to LA. There are more than enough “JKD Fighters” here. Plus a lot of Dan Inosanto’s students (which is a lot), who train MMA fighters don’t always use the term Jeet Kune Do even though that’s what it is or at the very least closely related to.

Learn before you speak (or write).

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[QUOTE=Jimbo;1196699]Good points.

A lot of people on forums like tossing little barbs at BL; usually what they really mean is, “I’m a better and more knowledgeable MAist than BL was.” When in fact nobody can ever know. So BL wasn’t a fighter because he didn’t have the foresight to make videos of himself fighting to one day post in the far-flung future on u-tube? Seriously?

Obviously, BL wasn’t the greatest fighter who ever lived. Who could ever claim that? It’s a very big world, and I doubt he himself ever claimed such. But I’m certain he could have handled himself very well against most people.

There are tons of people out there who could tear the living crap out of most guys, and who are unknown and have never posted anything online. Many of whom have very little to no formal MA training. They are not professional fighters, but they can hurt you very badly, very quickly. To underestimate others you don’t know because they’re ‘an actor’, or whatever else they happen to be/have been, is a potentially dangerous form of delusion.[/QUOTE]

Very good post Jimbo. Your right, not everyone that can fight well compete’s, it is a big world and to think that everyone that can fight want’s to compete or can is ridiculous IMO. Yes, to enter into the competative world of combat will definetly make you a better fighter, as now it is your profession.

Yoki, lol, your a funny guy, of course his CLAIM TO FAME is thru the movies, lol, how else does one get Fame??? Such a judgemental person based on not even meeting the man for himself. Pound for pound Bruce was up there..end of story.

J

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[QUOTE=sihing;1196753]Very good post Jimbo. Your right, not everyone that can fight well compete’s, it is a big world and to think that everyone that can fight want’s to compete or can is ridiculous IMO.[/QUOTE]
But if you want to be known as a fighter you have to. And to be known as a good fighter you have to fight some worthwhile opponents. Not everyone who can play music well performs, but those folks that don’t aren’t known as musicians.

[QUOTE=sihing;1196753] Yes, to enter into the competative world of combat will definetly make you a better fighter, as now it is your profession.[/quote]
Not necessarily. There are people who fight on a regular basis who have a regular full time job. But entering in fighting competition against other skilled opponents means you’re a fighter. For example if I enter some no name jujitsu tournaments and win or submit a few punks on the street am I a grappler? Maybe, but not one who’s very skilled or known to be. If I win or do well in the ADCC Or the Mundials am I a grappler? Yes, and very much known to be so.

[QUOTE=sihing;1196753]Yoki, lol, your a funny guy, of course his CLAIM TO FAME is thru the movies, lol, how else does one get Fame??? [/quote]
By fighting skilled opponents again and again and again.

[QUOTE=sihing;1196753]Such a judgemental person based on not even meeting the man for himself. Pound for pound Bruce was up there..end of story.

J[/QUOTE]

Meeting him isn’t required. We’re working from his competition record which is word of mouth only and even then not impressive in the least. Best up there? Not even close. Anderson Silva, George St. Pierre, Randy Couture, Muhammed Ali, George Foreman, Rickson Gracie… These are people who were/are great pound for pound fighters. Bruce never even attempted to fight people of this calibre.

He was an actor, not a fighter. He looked good and he made lots of noise. Ali did too, but he has a pro fight record against some of the best in the world to back it up. They weren’t exactly open rules like MMA but at least he did SOMETHING.

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[QUOTE=Bacon;1196759]But if you want to be known as a fighter you have to. And to be known as a good fighter you have to fight some worthwhile opponents. Not everyone who can play music well performs, but those folks that don’t aren’t known as musicians.

Not necessarily. There are people who fight on a regular basis who have a regular full time job. But entering in fighting competition against other skilled opponents means you’re a fighter. For example if I enter some no name jujitsu tournaments and win or submit a few punks on the street am I a grappler? Maybe, but not one who’s very skilled or known to be. If I win or do well in the ADCC Or the Mundials am I a grappler? Yes, and very much known to be so.

By fighting skilled opponents again and again and again.

Meeting him isn’t required. We’re working from his competition record which is word of mouth only and even then not impressive in the least. Best up there? Not even close. Anderson Silva, George St. Pierre, Randy Couture, Muhammed Ali, George Foreman, Rickson Gracie… These are people who were/are great pound for pound fighters. Bruce never even attempted to fight people of this calibre.

He was an actor, not a fighter. He looked good and he made lots of noise. Ali did too, but he has a pro fight record against some of the best in the world to back it up. They weren’t exactly open rules like MMA but at least he did SOMETHING.[/QUOTE]

First your attaching a label to Bruce (that of a Fighter), maybe that is something that you attach importance too, maybe he didn’t. I don’t know if he considered himself a fighter or not, or if he ever called himself a fighter or not, but it is all up to the individual as to what they want to do with their lives, not for you or I to make that decision for them. Your applying your own needs and wants to Bruce and then judging him on it.

The people you mentioned, Ali, Anderson, etc…Bruce had no exposure to those ppl, or to that calibre of ppl. You expect him to just drop what he was doing (trying to survive with a family) and train to become a top boxer??? Lol, because you think he needs to do this to deserve the title of a Fighter?? Man I am glad he never did anything as stupid as that, we would have never heard of him if he did, and his name would be out of the scene by 76’.

Being an inspiration, too me that is a great thing. Yes I know his name has been elevated to a God like status of some mystical fighter, I know that is BS, but he could fight, who cares if the title is not there to rep it, lol…plus I’ve never personally said he was the Best, they should take that word out of the dictionary..same with Perfect..

You guys are funny:)

J

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[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;1196732]Jet Li is a martial artist too…So is Steven Segal…hell Even Chuck Norris…

But the only one out the three who has done any real competition is Chuck Norris right?

Im not saying Lee isnt a martial artist…Im just saying he is a bit over rated!!!

Basically his claim to fame is his movies…Furthermore I have yet to see any one from Jeet Kune Do provide any real skill or fighting ability!!!

Forget it about it…Bring the Beimo Back to solve at this jaw jacking and arm chair fighting![/QUOTE]

Actually, I think Jet Li, on his own blog, is very clear about stating that he hasn’t been in a fight and never wants to engage in combat.

The fact that Bruce Lee trained martial arts for fighting rather than for performance is painstakingly obvious imo. It doesn’t take much to listen to or read BL’s words on martial arts and see that his views obviously value training martial arts to be effective in application as opposed to anything else. What do you think JKD is? A style of fighting made for performance? Obviously not. It would seem that the opposite is true as Bruce Lee really seemed to be against any type of fighting training that was flashy rather than effective. A person can be an actor and a martial artist at the same time. They dont have to just choose one or the other. I’m not even some huge Bruce Lee fan, but imo a person has to be extremely ignorant or oblivious to think that BL’s aim in training martial arts was for acting (which is what is implied when people say he was “an actor first, not a martial artist”). To think that, you’d literally have to ignore everything Bruce Lee has said about martial arts and then replace that with something he never expressed.

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As a martial artist fighting other game, fit, and skilled fighters is the only real test of your abilities. You claimed he was on of the best pound for pound. I showed why clearly that is not the case. There are many fighters who have families tying to make it. Take every guy on The Ultimate Fighter as an example.

He may not have had exposure to these people in particular but there were plenty of other real fighters of the day who he could’ve fought with. The Gracies had families, had no competitive format to clash with high caliber people so they went out and found them, they created a format. They did whatever possible to be the best. Bruce starred in movies and supposedly fought a few people who never did anything of repute.

A fighter is a martial artist who can prove their skills. Bruce was not a fighter hence why his skills are in serious doubt.

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[QUOTE=Bacon;1196800]As a martial artist fighting other game, fit, and skilled fighters is the only real test of your abilities. You claimed he was on of the best pound for pound. I showed why clearly that is not the case. There are many fighters who have families tying to make it. Take every guy on The Ultimate Fighter as an example.

He may not have had exposure to these people in particular but there were plenty of other real fighters of the day who he could’ve fought with. The Gracies had families, had no competitive format to clash with high caliber people so they went out and found them, they created a format. They did whatever possible to be the best. Bruce starred in movies and supposedly fought a few people who never did anything of repute.

A fighter is a martial artist who can prove their skills. Bruce was not a fighter hence why his skills are in serious doubt.[/QUOTE]

I love your confidence and the way you express yourself, like you actually know what Bruce Lee was about and how good he was, LMAO..

Like I said, funny:)

J

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[QUOTE=sihing;1196801]I love your confidence and the way you express yourself, like you actually know what Bruce Lee was about and how good he was, LMAO..

Like I said, funny:)

J[/QUOTE]

That’s my point though. I don’t, you don’t, and the only way we would is if he had actually fought people who were any good. Hence his skills are in doubt.

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[QUOTE=Bacon;1196802]That’s my point though. I don’t, you don’t, and the only way we would is if he had actually fought people who were any good. Hence his skills are in doubt.[/QUOTE]

The Doubt you write about above, is only YOUR doubt.

I don’t have that Doubt, so it eases your Doubt, in the cosmic world it’s even:)

J

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[QUOTE=sihing;1196803]The Doubt you write about above, is only YOUR doubt.

I don’t have that Doubt, so it eases your Doubt, in the cosmic world it’s even:)

J[/QUOTE]

You’re brining in the same argument religious folks bring about god. I’m not saying god doesn’t exist and I’m not saying Bruce may not have had good skills but the burden of proof is on the person making the claim and since it’s not possible to prove a negative in either case the burden of proof is on those saying Bruce had the skills. Since Bruce never fought and the claim is not verifiable or falsifiable his skills are in doubt to anyone who understands burden of proof and the scientific method.

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[QUOTE=Bacon;1196806]You’re brining in the same argument religious folks bring about god. I’m not saying god doesn’t exist and I’m not saying Bruce may not have had good skills but the burden of proof is on the person making the claim and since it’s not possible to prove a negative in either case the burden of proof is on those saying Bruce had the skills. Since Bruce never fought and the claim is not verifiable or falsifiable his skills are in doubt to anyone who understands burden of proof and the scientific method.[/QUOTE]

Yes but we’re talking subjective here, Bruce is not a scientific experiement, too many variables to disect.

I’m not saying he was the best or anything like that, or that he could compete with the top pro boxers of that time, the way he was then. But he could compete if he had wanted to, that is the thing, did he?

Was he an effective fighter in the sense of defending himself, yes for sure. Could he beat everyone, no, but no fighter can.

J

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Bruce Lee did not fight to any recorded degree. However, he undoubtably had great attributes for a fighter, as well as skills demonstrations that only an accomplished martial artist could achieve. This is not arguable as the evidence is present for all to see.

Now could he apply those skill sets and those attributes in a match against a trained fighter? Who knows? One thing that is also in evidence is his devotion to martial arts, and the intention of his studies to create a more competent, effecient, and powerful fighter.

We will never know how well he would have fared against trained fighters.

This argument is rediculous.

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[QUOTE=sihing;1196809]Yes but we’re talking subjective here, Bruce is not a scientific experiement, too many variables to disect.[/quote]
Exactly… Lots of variables. But the burden of proof is still on those making the affirmative claim. You cannot say anything about his fighting skills being good because he didn’t fight anyone of repute.

[QUOTE=sihing;1196753]I’m not saying he was the best or anything like that,[/quote]
…
[QUOTE=sihing;1196753] Pound for pound Bruce was up there..end of story.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=sihing;1196753]or that he could compete with the top pro boxers of that time, the way he was then. But he could compete if he had wanted to, that is the thing, did he?[/quote] and I could if I want to. Have I? No. Your argument is ridiculous. There is no proof for Bruce’s fighting ability. End of story.

[QUOTE=sihing;1196753]Was he an effective fighter in the sense of defending himself, yes for sure. Could he beat everyone, no, but no fighter can.[/quote]
And the captain obvious award goes to…

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[QUOTE=Lucas;1196810]Bruce Lee did not fight to any recorded degree. However, he undoubtably had great attributes for a fighter, as well as skills demonstrations that only an accomplished martial artist could achieve. This is not arguable as the evidence is present for all to see.

Now could he apply those skill sets and those attributes in a match against a trained fighter? Who knows? One thing that is also in evidence is his devotion to martial arts, and the intention of his studies to create a more competent, effecient, and powerful fighter.

We will never know how well he would have fared against trained fighters.

This argument is rediculous.[/QUOTE]

So there are reasonable and intelligent people here!

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[QUOTE=Bacon;1196813]So there are reasonable and intelligent people here![/QUOTE]

Don’t look at me!!!

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