Bruce Lee vs. Wong Jack Man fight

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
601

[QUOTE=bawang;1297532]wang is the personality to likely be humble and not admit winning and bruce is the personality likely to be narccisistic and not admit losing.

the critical question is, what has bruce lee done to/for kung fu, his impact, legacy.

[…]

conclusion: in present times the kung fu community is no bigger than it was in 1960s before bruce lee, except the quality has severely degraded caused by commercialization started by bruce lee craze. bruce lee was an interloper and outsider who hijacked overseas kung fu for his personal ambition and led to the corruption and disruption of the immigrant kung fu community.[/QUOTE]

And that technique is called “Bawang Drops Mic”.

602

[QUOTE=bawang;1297532]wang is the personality to likely be humble and not admit winning and bruce is the personality likely to be narccisistic and not admit losing.

the critical question is, what has bruce lee done to/for kung fu, his impact, legacy.

martial career:

-he insults every kung fu style other than wing chun.
-quits wing chun, insult wing chun, insults entire chinese martial arts
-never fought after making up his own style and started teaching
-insults every single style other than his own style at long beach tournament
-performs flowery northern movements learned in 2 months in movies
-promotes “gong fu” to american people in interviews

personal virtues:
-ambushes random untrained pedastrians to test wing chun
-betrays yip man
-seduces his student, marries her, later has hong kong mistresses
-insults and bullies chinese gong fu guys in chinatown who are poor coolies

cultural impact:
-led to short term interest jeet kune do and kung fu, quickly died down after americans found them to be ineffective
-led to long term legacy of kung fu attracting mentally ill and immoral people
-in 1990s only remembered by high pitched screams “WACHAAAA”, used to as insult to degrade asians
-helped build stereotype of quiet, effeminate, small, asexual kung fu master, displacing earlier samurai movie masculine figures
-in modern millenial generation is remembered by NO ONE, remaining kung fu enthusiasts are age 35+ remnants, except few big cities

conclusion: in present times the kung fu community is no bigger than it was in 1960s before bruce lee, except the quality has severely degraded caused by commercialization started by bruce lee craze. bruce lee was an interloper and outsider who hijacked overseas kung fu for his personal ambition and led to the corruption and disruption of the immigrant kung fu community.[/QUOTE]

Don’t hold back, tell us how you really feel.

603

[QUOTE=bawang;1297532]wang is the personality to likely be humble and not admit winning and bruce is the personality likely to be narccisistic and not admit losing.

the critical question is, what has bruce lee done to/for kung fu, his impact, legacy.

martial career:

-he insults every kung fu style other than wing chun.
-quits wing chun, insult wing chun, insults entire chinese martial arts
-never fought after making up his own style and started teaching
-insults every single style other than his own style at long beach tournament
-performs flowery northern movements learned in 2 months in movies
-promotes “gong fu” to american people in interviews

personal virtues:
-ambushes random untrained pedastrians to test wing chun
-betrays yip man
-seduces his student, marries her, later has hong kong mistresses
-insults and bullies chinese gong fu guys in chinatown who are poor coolies

cultural impact:
-led to short term interest jeet kune do and kung fu, quickly died down after americans found them to be ineffective
-led to long term legacy of kung fu attracting mentally ill and immoral people
-in 1990s only remembered by high pitched screams “WACHAAAA”, used to as insult to degrade asians
-helped build stereotype of quiet, effeminate, small, asexual kung fu master, displacing earlier samurai movie masculine figures
-in modern millenial generation is remembered by NO ONE, remaining kung fu enthusiasts are age 35+ remnants, except few big cities

conclusion: in present times the kung fu community is no bigger than it was in 1960s before bruce lee, except the quality has severely degraded caused by commercialization started by bruce lee craze. bruce lee was an interloper and outsider who hijacked overseas kung fu for his personal ambition and led to the corruption and disruption of the immigrant kung fu community.[/QUOTE]

//youtu.be/cphNpqKpKc4

604

[QUOTE=bawang;1297532]wang is the personality to likely be humble and not admit winning and bruce is the personality likely to be narccisistic and not admit losing.

the critical question is, what has bruce lee done to/for kung fu, his impact, legacy.

martial career:

-he insults every kung fu style other than wing chun.
-quits wing chun, insult wing chun, insults entire chinese martial arts
-never fought after making up his own style and started teaching
-insults every single style other than his own style at long beach tournament
-performs flowery northern movements learned in 2 months in movies
-promotes “gong fu” to american people in interviews

personal virtues:
-ambushes random untrained pedastrians to test wing chun
-betrays yip man
-seduces his student, marries her, later has hong kong mistresses
-insults and bullies chinese gong fu guys in chinatown who are poor coolies

cultural impact:
-led to short term interest jeet kune do and kung fu, quickly died down after americans found them to be ineffective
-led to long term legacy of kung fu attracting mentally ill and immoral people
-in 1990s only remembered by high pitched screams “WACHAAAA”, used to as insult to degrade asians
-helped build stereotype of quiet, effeminate, small, asexual kung fu master, displacing earlier samurai movie masculine figures
-in modern millenial generation is remembered by NO ONE, remaining kung fu enthusiasts are age 35+ remnants, except few big cities

conclusion: in present times the kung fu community is no bigger than it was in 1960s before bruce lee, except the quality has severely degraded caused by commercialization started by bruce lee craze. bruce lee was an interloper and outsider who hijacked overseas kung fu for his personal ambition and led to the corruption and disruption of the immigrant kung fu community.[/QUOTE]

**** interloper.

605

Funny how that works eh?

Ah well, it is what it is. :stuck_out_tongue:

606

[QUOTE=bawang;1297532]martial career:

-he insults every kung fu style other than wing chun.
-quits wing chun, insult wing chun, insults entire chinese martial arts
-never fought after making up his own style and started teaching
-insults every single style other than his own style at long beach tournament
-performs flowery northern movements learned in 2 months in movies
-promotes “gong fu” to american people in interviews

[/QUOTE]

Lol.

I hadn’t paid all that much attention to the details of Bruce Lee’s bio until this discussion thread.

But really… I just now read that he had 2 years of Wing Chun training as a high school kid.

So he came to the US with that and 2 months of Shaolin forms, and proceeds to tell everyone he meets that they don’t know sh!t?

:rolleyes:

607

[QUOTE=-N-;1297564]Lol.

I hadn’t paid all that much attention to the details of Bruce Lee’s bio until this discussion thread.

But really… I just now read that he had 2 years of Wing Chun training as a high school kid.

So he came to the US with that and 2 months of Shaolin forms, and proceeds to tell everyone he meets that they don’t know sh!t?

:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Not long after arriving in San Francisco, BL visited the Hung Sing CLF kwoon, loudly proclaiming the superiority of WC, but turned tail and fled when confronted by Lau Bun, who told him to get out. Reportedly, some of Lau Bun’s senior students were ready for a fight and laughed when BL took off.

608

[QUOTE=bawang;1297532]
cultural impact:
-led to short term interest jeet kune do and kung fu, quickly died down after americans found them to be ineffective. Bruce also brought to the fore the importance of resistance training and overall body conditioning. Basically, TCMA requires strength and stamina and sparring. He did not kiss up to the “defend yourself without using strength” paradigm put forth by so many masters, Chinese or otherwise.

-led to long term legacy of kung fu attracting mentally ill and immoral people

-helped build stereotype of quiet, effeminate, small, asexual kung fu master, displacing earlier samurai movie masculine figures

[/QUOTE]

  • If American interest died down it is because they found out that serious traditional training in CMA is difficult.

  • In Chinese society there was the concern of criminal elements within kung fu schools; so, those energies were present long before Bruce came bouncing along

  • Bruce COMPLETELY BROKE the cinematic stereotype of the quiet, small, asexual, effeminate kung fu master.

In the film Fist of Fury (The Big Boss), Bruce’s character visits a brothel before he takes on the villains in the final scene. This scene was cut from most prints.

In the film The Chinese Connection, Bruce’s character passionately kisses Nora Miao’s character in the graveyard scene. That scene was not always shown. The fight scene where Bruce’s character impales Yoshida with the sword was actually a revisit to a Wong Fei Hung movie. In that film Wong Fei Hung injures the Japanese master (played by the same actor who played Yoshida) and offers to provide him with medical assistance. Bruce’s character offers medical assistance with a wild swinging punch, figuratively saying, “I ain’t no Wong Fei Hung, motherf@cker!” For anyone who followed the Wong Fei Hung flicks, this must have been a total shock to their system. They were seeing something totally different. By the way, that same Wong Fei Hung movie may have inspired Bruce’s film, The Game of death.

mickey

609

[QUOTE=mickey;1297590]- If American interest died down it is because they found out that serious traditional training in CMA is difficult.

  • In Chinese society there was the concern of criminal elements within kung fu schools; so, those energies were present long before Bruce came bouncing along

  • Bruce COMPLETELY BROKE the stereotype of the quiet, small, asexual, effeminate kung fu master.

In the film Fist of Fury (The Big Boss), Bruce’s character visits a brothel before he takes on the villains in the final scene. This scene was cut from most prints.

In the film The Chinese Connection, Bruce’s character passionately kisses Nora Miao’s character in the graveyard scene. That scene was not always shown. The fight scene where Bruce’s character impales Yoshida with the sword was actually a revisit to a Wong Fei Hung movie. In that film Wong Fei Hung injures the Japanese master (played by the same actor who played Yoshida) and offers to provide him with medical assistance. Bruce’s character offers medical assistance with a wild swinging punch, figuratively saying, “I ain’t no Wong Fei Hung, motherf@cker!” For anyone who followed the Wong Fei Hung flicks, this must have been a total shock to their system. They were seeing something totally different. By the way, that same Wong Fei Hung movie may have inspired Bruce’s film, The Game of death.

mickey[/QUOTE]

You also make some good points, mickey.

However, much of the American interest in kung fu dying down also had a lot to do with unqualified karate teachers passing themselves off as kung fu teachers. All of a sudden, many karate schools began advertising ‘kung fu-karate’ on their front windows and signs. And TBH, most people really didn’t know the difference anyway, and still don’t.

Real TCMA that were openly taught were relatively rare at that time, and certainly weren’t available everywhere. Certainly not everywhere that people were advertising their karate as kung fu, or kung fu as being just another style/category of karate. Many TCMA are still hard to find or remain unavailable today in many parts of the U.S.

610

[QUOTE=Jimbo;1297593]You also make some good points, mickey.

However, much of the American interest in kung fu dying down also had a lot to do with unqualified karate teachers passing themselves off as kung fu teachers. All of a sudden, many karate schools began advertising ‘kung fu-karate’ on their front windows and signs. And TBH, most people really didn’t know the difference anyway, and still don’t.

Real TCMA that were openly taught were relatively rare at that time, and certainly weren’t available everywhere. Certainly not everywhere that people were advertising their karate as kung fu, or kung fu as being just another style/category of karate. Many TCMA are still hard to find or remain unavailable today in many parts of the U.S.[/QUOTE]

Greetings Jimbo,

There is room for several on the soapbox I stand on. :slight_smile:

Thank you for bringing forth the chicanery that was going on at the time.

EDIT: The chicanery still exists.

mickey

611

[QUOTE=Jimbo;1297593]You also make some good points, mickey.

However, much of the American interest in kung fu dying down also had a lot to do with unqualified karate teachers passing themselves off as kung fu teachers. All of a sudden, many karate schools began advertising ‘kung fu-karate’ on their front windows and signs. And TBH, most people really didn’t know the difference anyway, and still don’t.

Real TCMA that were openly taught were relatively rare at that time, and certainly weren’t available everywhere. Certainly not everywhere that people were advertising their karate as kung fu, or kung fu as being just another style/category of karate. Many TCMA are still hard to find or remain unavailable today in many parts of the U.S.[/QUOTE]

dont forget hung gar and wing chun claimed to be shaolin. that is giant sacriledge

612

[QUOTE=mickey;1297590]- If American interest died down it is because they found out that serious traditional training in CMA is difficult.

  • In Chinese society there was the concern of criminal elements within kung fu schools; so, those energies were present long before Bruce came bouncing along

  • Bruce COMPLETELY BROKE the cinematic stereotype of the quiet, small, asexual, effeminate kung fu master.

In the film Fist of Fury (The Big Boss), Bruce’s character visits a brothel before he takes on the villains in the final scene. This scene was cut from most prints.

In the film The Chinese Connection, Bruce’s character passionately kisses Nora Miao’s character in the graveyard scene. That scene was not always shown. The fight scene where Bruce’s character impales Yoshida with the sword was actually a revisit to a Wong Fei Hung movie. In that film Wong Fei Hung injures the Japanese master (played by the same actor who played Yoshida) and offers to provide him with medical assistance. Bruce’s character offers medical assistance with a wild swinging punch, figuratively saying, “I ain’t no Wong Fei Hung, motherf@cker!” For anyone who followed the Wong Fei Hung flicks, this must have been a total shock to their system. They were seeing something totally different. By the way, that same Wong Fei Hung movie may have inspired Bruce’s film, The Game of death.

mickey[/QUOTE]
his high pitched scream was clearly effeminate. his distant silent passive aggresive attitude portrayed in the movies was clearly feminine. self obsession is also a feminine trait. You dont notice because you bought into the concept of “eastern masculinity”, which is a completely false construct.

613

[QUOTE=bawang;1297598]his high pitched scream was clearly effeminate. his distant silent passive aggresive attitude portrayed in the movies was clearly feminine. self obsession is also a feminine trait. You dont notice because you bought into the concept of “eastern masculinity”, which is a completely false construct.[/QUOTE]

Greetings bawang,

The problem only exists when Asians, Chinese in particular, buy into the Bruce Lee cinematic portrayals as the full expression of their masculinity. As far as non Asians are concerned, they need to take time to engage more with cultures that differ from their own and not wait for the movie companies and other media to define their understandings of people for them. If Bruce Lee, kung fu and Chinese food is all a people understands about Chinese culture, they owe it to themselves to find out more.

mickey

614

[QUOTE=mickey;1297604]Greetings bawang,

The problem only exists when Asians, Chinese in particular, buy into the Bruce Lee cinematic portrayals as the full expression of their masculinity. As far as non Asians are concerned, they need to take time to engage more with cultures that differ from their own and not wait for the movie companies and other media to define their understandings of people for them. If Bruce Lee, kung fu and Chinese food is all a people understands about Chinese culture, they owe it to themselves to find out more.

mickey[/QUOTE]

mickey,

There is a strange phenomenon going on today, at least in the States, where the general liberal policy is ‘understanding’ of others and dissolving stereotypes, whether ‘others’ means black, white, Latino, Middle Eastern/Muslim, LGBT, those who are morbidly obese, mentally challenged, ‘vertically challenged’, whatever, whatever, whatever…yet, a high percentage of these proponents of opening up and understanding others still buy into the stereotypes of East Asians lock, stock and barrel. Even the positive stereotypes (such as “model minority”) are harmful, because they don’t allow for the reality of individual differences, as well as social problems that all groups face. Also, so-called ‘positive’ stereotypes of Asians always promote an image of soulless, asexual industriousness as well as masculine weakness, and can be more insidious than many of the negative stereotypes such as organized crime, vice, etc.

Most non-Asians in general either do not or cannot distinguish between the various East and Southeast Asian groups, and don’t care, so the group in question matters little, whether they be Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Filipino, Thai, Hmong, etc., etc.

Let me point out that I follow no political sides, but am merely presenting the truth as I’ve seen it.

615

Hi Jimbo,

I agree with what you have shared and a lot of it is media dependent. Media is used to help promote policy. So, it really comes down to personal power: the strength and willingness of a person to engage directly. I remember sharing with one of my sisters that “to become Americanized is to become less,” meaning that cultural distinctions and all other things that distinguish a particular group is discouraged. I spoke that a very long time ago. And, as you have shared, it is still happening.

mickey

616

Well Im F—king WHITE ( and 1/322 Indian according to Bawang) and proud of it ! WHITE! WHITE !WHITE !

Im am also proud of my 1/2 Japanese Sister and 1/2 Mexican son.

Funny thing is is I notice it seems real unpopular to be WHITE in todays world. Well I am WHITE and I don’t care because cant change it don’t want to change it. I like being WHITE !

So f—ck all you anti white mother-f—ers right in the A–ss !

Im proud to be WHITE !

617

[QUOTE=boxerbilly;1297608]Well Im F—king WHITE ( and 1/322 Indian according to Bawang) and proud of it ! WHITE! WHITE !WHITE !

Im am also proud of my 1/2 Japanese Sister and 1/2 Mexican son.

Funny thing is is I notice it seems real unpopular to be WHITE in todays world. Well I am WHITE and I don’t care because cant change it don’t want to change it. I like being WHITE !

So f—ck all you anti white mother-f—ers right in the A–ss !

Im proud to be WHITE ![/QUOTE]

Greetings Billy,

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

You are too much! :smiley:

mickey

618

[QUOTE=mickey;1297609]Greetings Billy,

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

You are too much! :smiley:

mickey[/QUOTE]

LOL.

Maybe. But since no one ever seems to STAND UP for the WHITE guy anymore I figured maybe I should. I am WHITE after all . LOL.

Pretty sure the WHITE readers of this forum outnumber all the other combined ! Sort of like the demographics of America.

Any way simple number facts . I could care less what anyone is if they are my friend. I only get racist when they are not ! Like anyone else out there.

619

Hi, Billy.

In the U.S., whites are still seen as the ideal standard of masculinity, beauty and heroism. Look at any list of what Americans rate as the ‘50 hottest’, whether male or female, and 95% will be white, with a few blacks included for ‘balance’. When people think ‘all-American’ and ‘hero’, it’s usually a white person initially in people’s minds, even the minds of many non-whites.

White people are also seen as individuals. A white wimpy guy isn’t seen as representing the entire group. Imagine if white men were generally viewed as emasculated wimps, and you might get a brief picture of what many Asian-American males are viewed as in American popular culture, and thus belief systems.

620

[QUOTE=Jimbo;1297612]Hi, Billy.

In the U.S., whites are still seen as the ideal standard of masculinity, beauty and heroism. Look at any list of what Americans rate as the ‘50 hottest’, whether male or female, and 95% will be white, with a few blacks included for ‘balance’. When people think ‘all-American’ and ‘hero’, it’s usually a white person initially in people’s minds, even the minds of many non-whites.

White people are also seen as individuals. A white wimpy guy isn’t seen as representing the entire group. Imagine if white men were generally viewed as emasculated wimps, and you might get a brief picture of what many Asian-American males are viewed as in American popular culture, and thus belief systems.[/QUOTE]

Jimbo Im really just having some fun. Im on narcotics at present, lol. But it is true. The white guy be getting kicked a lot and Im tired of it !

Anyway, I understand other people of non white origin getting upset over this that and everything else but again. Whites are like 80 percent of the market. Almost EVERY market in the US. So it sort of make good business sense to market to the largest demographic. I hate to break to everyone. America is a WHITE country. That’s the reality.

I personally am sick and tired of hearing how we white do all this bad stuff. Heck everyone race did bad stuff to another at one point in time or another. Get over it! Or we cant move on ever. But stuff like white advantage. Heck, I lost a job to a black guy because of affirmitive action. And I know I was the better person at that trade because I trained that EXACT black guy. Was I mad ? Nope. That’s life dudes ! Glad he got hired because he deserved a great job too and he was very good at that trade because I trained him !

Anyway, its all nonsense to divide us.

It would be like me going to China and complaining about the Chinese problem there. Keeping po’whitey down !