“A grappler would and have killed professional boxers with NO KNOWLEDGE of take down defense.”
It’s not like 9 times out of 10. More like 5 out of 10 maybe.
Sak’s a good grappler right?
Do you think he could close the distance and take
down Roy Jones?
I don’t. Call it a matter of opinion.
Silva - Brown belt BJJ
Ends most fights standing and striking.
Belfort- Black belt BJJ
Amatuer boxer as well.
“A grappler would and have killed professional boxers with NO KNOWLEDGE of take down defense.”
It’s not like 9 times out of 10. More like 5 out of 10 maybe.
Melton Bowen was the IBF heavy weight champion when he fought Steve Jennum.
"Silva - Brown belt BJJ
Ends most fights standing and striking.
Belfort- Black belt BJJ
Amatuer boxer as well."
Because of their knowledge of BJJ they control the fight. A boxer is not trained to fight NHB and would losse just as Bowen did.
But if he trained for it, just like Silva and Belfort, then they have and advantage.
If the boxers could defeat the NHB fighters that easily they would stop by and win a couple tournaments on the way home and make an extra couple hundred thousand.
Bowen?
Heavyweight Melton Bowen had a respectable record at 35-8, but never beat a legit fighter. Basically Bowen lost to notable’s like Briggs by KO in the first round, lost to Tony Tubbs by decision, and lost to Carl “The Truth” Williams by KO. His record was impressive, but he fought his share of tomato cans.
When Bowen fought in the UFC, he did o.k. against policeman Steve Jennum. He landed some good shots, but in the end, it was Jennum securing the arm bar for the win.
Using BJJ to control a fight? Are you saying boxer’s can’t control a fight?
I have three friends who box or boxed professionally and I can say they are tough to mess with. Wether you go for a clinch
grab or throw, they are not easy marks. Especially when the start in with the elbows and rabbit punches.
In a thread like this before a guy stated KO’s don’t happen often
in the street. One of my friends fought alot and I’d have to take off my shoes to count the number of people I’ve seen him lay out, that includes a serious wrestler.
Lol - He even made one of Boston’s 10 toughest people in the mag “Improper Bostonian”.
Anyhoo,
I am in no way implying one or the other is a superior art. I just don’t buy the 9 out of ten thing. Again, just differnce of opinion.
Then we have to consider how good is the grappler and how good is the boxer. Giving the boxer a 1 in 10 chance just isn’t realistic to me.
Good points BAI HE,
But to be a successful MMA fighter you must be well rounded in all ranges.
One style is not going to work to be a champion in any MMA event.
The 1 in 10 times thing depends on the individuals fighting for sure.
A grappler against a PROFESSIONAL Boxer?
If you are comparing to a professional boxer lets look at how a professional NHB fighter is training. No one is a straight grappler, the majority are learning boxing. They train the way boxers train with the other skills. Obviously in a pure boxing match the boxer will win because he is specializing in it.
In a NHB event the boxers are at a disadvantage because they are not training for the grappling. Its not hard to take down someone who does not understand how to defend it. Bowen showed that when Jennum threw him. He stood there waiting for it to happen.
In controlling a fight, a boxer is going to have a hard time stopping a double leg, or the many more takedowns that are going to happen, he doesn’t train for it.
Silva and Belfort are two of many NHB fighters that are training in boxing. Straight Blast Gym has been putting out fighters that are winning, they don’t talk about MT or Kick Boxing for training on strikes, they train in Boxing. But to be successful in NHB you have to be able to fight in a clinch, and on the ground. Even if you don’t want to be on the ground you need to know how to defend against it and how to stop a submission or takedown. Boxing alone will not suffice.
BlackJack. I agree with most of what you said.
The only point I dispute is the " 9 times out of ten"
I don’t and won’t buy it.
It also comes down to grappling skill. A lot grapplers like to cite
some of the greats like " The Gracies do this and that blahblah…"
But do they have the skill level to pull it off?
I know there are a lot of good ground workers on this board but
can you say that you can walk into a boxing gym have a go with a decent boxer and win nine times out of ten?
Remember, all it takes is one good shot and the fight is all over.
BTW I have nothing against grappling. My preference is to throw from the bridge everytime.
"Heavyweight Melton Bowen had a respectable record at 35-8, but never beat a legit fighter. Basically Bowen lost to notable’s like Briggs by KO in the first round, lost to Tony Tubbs by decision, and lost to Carl “The Truth” Williams by KO. His record was impressive, but he fought his share of tomato cans.
When Bowen fought in the UFC, he did o.k. against policeman Steve Jennum. He landed some good shots, but in the end, it was Jennum securing the arm bar for the win. "
http://www.boxinginsider.net/columns/stories/55443010.php
It was an OK article
Ooops I meant Dark Knight not black Jack.
And in comparison, Steve is not a top NHB fighter and Bowen was way ahead of Jennum in fighting skills, but he wasnt prepared to be thrown let alone armbared.
The Gracies do this and that blahblah…"
I hate that too. I cant beat someone based on how well someone else fights.
Re: Gracies - LOL.
Bowen Vs. Jennum?
There’s your 1 out of 10 bro’.
Originally posted by Dark Knight
And in comparison, Steve is not a top NHB fighter and Bowen was way ahead of Jennum in fighting skills, but he wasnt prepared to be thrown let alone armbared.
Steve Jennum may not have been a top NHB fighter, but according to a link that was posted on this thread, Steve Jennum defeated Harold Howard (Strikes), and Harold Howard defeated Royce Gracie in a TKO (Towel thrown at start of match). It appears this all happened in 9-9-1994 at “UFC 3 - American Dream”.
Apparently, Steve, although not at the top of the NHB sport, wasn’t at the bottom either.
Anyone know how Harold got a TKO win against Royce Gracie?
Royce never fought Howard, they threw in the towel right when Royce got in the ring.
Royce fought Kimo before the Howard match and he was dehydrated and couldn’t go on.
Kimo & Joe Son ran out to the middle of the ring and jumped for joy it was funny as hell, Even though Royce beat Kimo Via armbar It was the closest anyone had come to beating Royce in the UFC.
Just a little anecdote.
the hardest person I’ve ever had to take down or clinch was (and still is 
) my father…whom was a Golden Gloves Boxer out of Tenessee.
Ryu
Originally posted by chokemaster
Royce never fought Howard, they threw in the towel right when Royce got in the ring.
Ahh! I knew there was something strange about the “…threw in the towel at the start of the match.” statement.
Kimo claimed the victory because Royce could not even start the next fight.
But Kimo did tap out, even if he hurt Royce enough to make him drop out.
Steve was an alternate that was chosen when other fighters had to drop out. Howard was not a top fighter. Thats one of the problems with the earlier UFC’s. Coleman won one because he had no one to fight for the final fight. He won by default.
“Remember, all it takes is one good shot and the fight is all over.”
LOL…remember also…good shot are hard to come by…Grapplers are not going to stand toe to toe with pro boxers…they’re usually on your ankles before u can toss out a jab.
Originally posted by BAI HE
Me…hence the topic..