Alright, I have been wondering what the end of the third form is all about. The part where you swing your arms around three times then bend down and come back up. I have been trying to figure this out for awhile now and I still don’t know what it means. Can any of you on here help to explain this move to me?
that varies from family to family
Hi!
I learned several applications to this set.
One application is for example, if someone pushes you and you loose balance - with this swinging the arms you’re able to regain structure, center-line and balance.
Bending of the head can be a simple head-butt for “very close range”.
Hope this helps,
Armin.
as you know the third form is about covering mistakes & suffering as little damage as possible, it also shows us that sometimes we may need contradict(go outside ving tsuns principles) everything we have learnt before. it also shows where mistakes may be & makes us think how we might solve the problems with usages from the other forms(and principles) before they happen in reality.
anyhoos, the head is down & the arms come up first.
head down- keep it protected
arms first- clear a path & protect the head
better to sacrifice an arm than your head.
well maybe?
vts
biu jee ending
The ending of the biu jee form actually arised from the red boat days. As we all know the biu jee form is also referred to as the “emergency techniques”.One day while gee shim was cooking breakfast for the opera boys he accidently overcooked the noodles.Well this made the opera boys very angry and they demanded that gee shim make fresh noodles and told him to make sure they were “al dente”. Gee shim told them to go to hell.So, the opera boys threw him overboard and he started doin’ the backstroke.Gee shim realized the importance of the backstroke so he included it into the “emergency techniques” form of the wing chun system! SO there ya have it…mystery solved!!!
backstroke
“So, the opera boys threw him overboard and he started doin’ the backstroke.”
Nice theory, but I actually know the backstroke and when you do it, you are suppose to be swinging your arms backwards, not forwards.
Maybe it was the freestyle he was doing, or the butterfly stroke. Makes more sense though if it was the butterfly stroke.
forwards?
you don’t swing your arms forward in the version I do. Where did you see the arms going forward?
sunkuen
Well every lineage probably does it differently.
But in the version I do, we first drop our arms down, then swing them to the back and up over our heads. Imagine your arms stretched out in front of you. Then drop them down to the side of you. Then from this position, swing them to the back of you. Then from there, swing them up so that your fingers are pointing upwards. Now drop them back down so that they are stretched out in front of you again. We do this three times, then bend forward at the waist and our arms go down in between our legs. Then we bring the arms back up and our body starts to come back up at the waist. Then we end it with three punchs.
I call this swinging your arms forwards.
If you were to start with your arms stretched out in front of you and swing them up towards your head first, then towards the back, then towards the sides and back to the starting position.
I call this swinging your arms backwards.
I hope it is clear what I’m trying to say. Would have been so much easier to show you what I mean by forwards and backwards.
Sounds like you got it backwards!!!
?
“Sounds like you got it backwards!!!”
Are you talking about the way I swing my arms our are you talking about the “forwards/backwards” thing?
backwards - forwards
all depends on how you look at it.
How about this…
Arms down in front, palms together in front of you stops the knee from smashing into your face or gut courtesy of the thai boxer, for example. When you swing your arms up and out around your head, you break his grip and around your neck and then re-establish the centerline with punches or tan/lop with (left) hand and man ging sao (right) pulling their head into pie jarn(left). This would be one application.
Sunkuen, you are close, but the actual Jee Shim story is a little different.
The opera dudes started hassling him about the noodles all right, but what he actually did was:
-
suddenly bent forward and thrust his arms down to pick up the pot, and
-
then swung his arms back over the head while standing up, hurling the pot, water and noodles all over the performers hassling him, then chain punched the closest one in the face three times.
In TWC both arms circle together over and back then forward once only. Another application is to drop the COG and drive the hips back and arms away from them as a defense against a clinch from the rear. The arms lifting over the head can also serve as a rear breakfall (though IMHO not a particularly good one).
HEHEHE
It’s really interesting the funny twists wing chun history takes as it makes its way down the grapevine. Any minute now Rene is gonna show up and set the record straight.Then Benny’s version will get published in the Magazine!!!
The finger jabs of biu jee are aimed at the forehead and groin!
The bending down motion is to sweep dirt in your enemy’s eyes!
The bending back motion is to grab his legs and trip him!
The double grabbing motion is to grasp his shirt collar to threaten him!
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Tongue of Colibob
Not so. You speak with forked tongue.
There is more
Tonto told me so.
Yuanfen-the real lone ranger.
“When you swing your arms up and out around your head, you break his grip and around your neck and then re-establish the centerline with punches or tan/lop with (left) hand and man ging sao (right) pulling their head into pie jarn(left). This would be one application”
Interesting shadowboxer. I’ll have to try that one in class soon. So when you are in the clinch with a MT guy, you would swing the arms over your head and try to get out of the clinch like that? What part of the arm would you use to break the hold they have on your neck, the forearm or the elbows?
swinging the arms
In the actual application you wouldn’t go around your head. You break the grip with your forearms on the upward swing. You would make the entire movement as small as possible to break free and hit. I guess one reason for swinging the arms around the head is to help generate power. Anybody else have any thoughts…?
BTW, we train other ways of dealing with the clinch, besides not getting into the clinch, that come from chi sao.
The only real use of the arm thing at the end is this:
You’re tying your shoelaces. Suddenly a dozen guys come out to kick your butt. You raise your arms above your head and plead for mercy
seriously, I think that part is just religious…maybe Buddhist influence or some sifu adding it to seem like buddhist influenced. There really is no useful techinique or application hidden in the movements…
EmptyCup
Kick it, or in your case, slap it?
picture this, you’ve been knocked down(or for some reason you are down tying up your shoelaces or who knows what)
& you are attacked by someone wielding a knife or a club etc
what are you going to do as they strike
a. leed with the head
b.sh!t yourself
c.raise your arms first to protect your head, even if means sacrificing an arm.
d.you haven’t got a brain, so it doesn’t matter
better to lose an arm than your life.
if i remember correctly there was a student, i think of wong shun leungs(i am not sure if this is correct, perhaps david peterson or straightblast5 may know better of this) that was attacked with a knife. the only thing between it & his head was his arm, apparently he suffered a tremendous cut to the forearm but hey, he lived.(i did at one time know the whole story but as i get older the brain has this habit of playin’ up on me)
again someone who knows better may correct me if i’m wrong but i think this movement may be more of a principle than an exact technique.
‘seriously, I think that part is just religious…maybe Buddhist influence or some sifu adding it to seem like buddhist influenced. There really is no useful techinique or application hidden in the movements…’
EmptyCup, i do believe that it is not only your cup that is empty on this occasion.
vts