[QUOTE=Syn7;1042083]oh i soooo disagree…
i submit that big biz has committed countless attrocities throughout history in order to profit…[/QUOTE]
Come on Syn, be honest here. You can’t compare big businesses evils vs the evils of Government throughout history. How many people did Mao murder? Hitler? Stalin? Pol Pot? Castro? I’m not giving big business a free pass here, but let’s keep it in perspective.
Update on the Chrysler thread
"Thirteen plant workers at the Chrysler Jefferson North Assembly plant in Detroit have lost their jobs after a video showing some of them drinking during their lunch break was aired on the Detroit Fox affiliate.
“It has been determined that 13 employees engaged in behavior that violated the company’s Standards of Conduct and these 13 employees were discharged today,” the company said in a written statement, MyFoxDetroit.com reported. “Two remaining employees will receive a one month disciplinary layoff without pay.”"
Complete article:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,601545,00.html
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1042090]Come on Syn, be honest here. You can’t compare big businesses evils vs the evils of Government throughout history. How many people did Mao murder? Hitler? Stalin? Pol Pot? Castro? I’m not giving big business a free pass here, but let’s keep it in perspective.[/QUOTE]
yeah it botherss me that you put castro on the same list as hitler… thats right offensive…
you show me one thing he’s done that is so bad… and back it up… cia docs and other US gov. rhettoric isnt proof… so show me what he’s done that was so bad…???
companies do horrible things everyday… we cant realistically have this convo in a web forum, so i’ll just let it go… a kingdom or government is just a giant corporation… usually run by the people who own the most…
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1042115]"Thirteen plant workers at the Chrysler Jefferson North Assembly plant in Detroit have lost their jobs after a video showing some of them drinking during their lunch break was aired on the Detroit Fox affiliate.
“It has been determined that 13 employees engaged in behavior that violated the company’s Standards of Conduct and these 13 employees were discharged today,” the company said in a written statement, MyFoxDetroit.com reported. “Two remaining employees will receive a one month disciplinary layoff without pay.”"
Complete article:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,601545,00.html[/QUOTE]
good… lazy and irresponsible union workers are a large part of those to blame for the crisis we see today… unrealistic pay for labour that people elsewhere do for pennies…
Well, Bjj-blue’s clear bias against Castro aside, his point is valid.
Big business is in the business of making money and anything that goes against that is bad buisness.
Look at Microsoft, it was always the target because it was huge, a monoply, typical of all that is bad with big business, people said that all the time but with what proof?
None, Gates and company have always gone far beyond the norm to help even their competitiors, why?
Because it is GOOD business to be good.
Sure there are some major *******s like those Enron ****s, but those were individuals doing crap not “business”.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1042256]Well, Bjj-blue’s clear bias against Castro aside, his point is valid.
Big business is in the business of making money and anything that goes against that is bad buisness.
Look at Microsoft, it was always the target because it was huge, a monoply, typical of all that is bad with big business, people said that all the time but with what proof?
None, Gates and company have always gone far beyond the norm to help even their competitiors, why?
Because it is GOOD business to be good.
Sure there are some major *******s like those Enron ****s, but those were individuals doing crap not “business”.[/QUOTE]
A lot of our anti-monopoly laws came about due to big oil and, later down the line, big telecoms not playing fair with their competitors. Running the smaller ones out of business, controlling markets to a point where fresh ideas were either absorbed or destroyed, etc etc.
Microsoft isn’t innocent either. Remember the IE debacle? A lot of software developers floundered because MS already had a browser added to their OS. A low blow, if you ask me.
[QUOTE=Drake;1042267]A lot of our anti-monopoly laws came about due to big oil and, later down the line, big telecoms not playing fair with their competitors. Running the smaller ones out of business, controlling markets to a point where fresh ideas were either absorbed or destroyed, etc etc.
Microsoft isn’t innocent either. Remember the IE debacle? A lot of software developers floundered because MS already had a browser added to their OS. A low blow, if you ask me.[/QUOTE]
Saints? no, but evil? not even close.
Business can and are controlled by consumers and shareholders.
While some can, for a short period, try to manipulate and control the consumer, it doesn’t last very long.
That said, regulations tend to be the needed because character is NOT a requirment for a CEO, LOL !
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1042271]Saints? no, but evil? not even close.
Business can and are controlled by consumers and shareholders.
While some can, for a short period, try to manipulate and control the consumer, it doesn’t last very long.
That said, regulations tend to be the needed because character is NOT a requirment for a CEO, LOL ![/QUOTE]
With all Bill Gates has donated to charity, I would never call him evil. However, monopoly laws are in place for a reason.
And for the record… I’m no fan of Castro, myself. A puppet for the USSR, if you ask me. And now he’s alone, unless you count Venezuela.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1042271]Business can and are controlled by consumers and shareholders..[/QUOTE]
No. Consumers are controlled by businesses and their shareholders.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1042276]No. Consumers are controlled by businesses and their shareholders.[/QUOTE]
You bought an iPad, didn’t you? Admit it.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1042276]No. Consumers are controlled by businesses and their shareholders.[/QUOTE]
And an Iphone, right?
LOL !
[QUOTE=Syn7;1042164]yeah it botherss me that you put castro on the same list as hitler… thats right offensive…[/QUOTE]
Why is it offensive to put one tyrant who murders inocent people in with another tyrant who did the same things?
[QUOTE=Syn7;1042164]you show me one thing he’s done that is so bad… and back it up… cia docs and other US gov. rhettoric isnt proof… so show me what he’s done that was so bad…???[/QUOTE]
LMAO at you trying to say you want sources but CIA and Gov’t docs don’t count. ok, how about eywitness accounts?
http://picard.montclair.edu/witness/LaCabana.html
http://www.cubaarchive.org/downloads/CA08.pdf
Anderson, Jon Lee. Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life, New York: 1997, Grove Press, p. 372 - p. 425
[QUOTE=Syn7;1042164]companies do horrible things everyday… we cant realistically have this convo in a web forum, so i’ll just let it go… a kingdom or government is just a giant corporation… usually run by the people who own the most…[/QUOTE]
Get real. When you see big business running gas chambers, political prisons, ovens, digging mass graves, and executing their rivals, you be sure and post those examples. Until then, lets be rational here like Sanjuro and admit that there really is no comparison here.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1042276]No. Consumers are controlled by businesses and their shareholders.[/QUOTE]
And those very consumers are the shareholders.
Actually over 50% of Americans own stocks now days. Were you aware of that?
Why is it offensive to put one tyrant who murders inocent people in with another tyrant who did the same things?
Hey apples and oranges are both fruits, both have a peel, pits and can make juice, but no one will ever call an apple and orange and vice-versa.
Salazar and Franco were worse than Castro.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1042300]Salazar and Franco were worse than Castro.[/QUOTE]
When comparing dictators who murder innocent people, I don’t really compare them like that. They are all evil in my book. Of course the body counts vary, but evil is evil.
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1042377]When comparing dictators who murder innocent people, I don’t really compare them like that. They are all evil in my book. Of course the body counts vary, but evil is evil.[/QUOTE]
As compared to presidents and prime ministers that murder innocent people?
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1042378]As compared to presidents and prime ministers that murder innocent people?[/QUOTE]
just to source that up for you… http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1042380]just to source that up for you… http://www.iraqbodycount.org/[/QUOTE]
Look guys, I do not compare collateral damage in war with gas chambers, firing squads, and political prisons. If you do, we are honestly just not going to see eye to eye.
To me the big difference is the collateral damage is accidental, while gas chambers, etc are intentionally done. Do you not agree?
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1042377]When comparing dictators who murder innocent people, I don’t really compare them like that. They are all evil in my book. Of course the body counts vary, but evil is evil.[/QUOTE]
I despise dictatorships in ANY form, so I agree, evil is evil.
I have spent time in Cuba, spoken with the people, my spanish is quite good.
There is a love-hate relationship with Castro and to be honest, in many ways the US is Castro’s best friend, it it wasn’t for the US embargo and political silliness, Castro would have been out ages ago.
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1042382]Look guys, I do not compare collateral damage in war with gas chambers, firing squads, and political prisons. If you do, we are honestly just not going to see eye to eye.
To me the big difference is the collateral damage is accidental, while gas chambers, etc are intentionally done. Do you not agree?[/QUOTE]
Abu Ghraib, GITMO, the recent “rogue platoon”, and the things that happened at Fallulah come to mind, along with numerous other incidents where I personally believe civilian safety wasn’t a terribly important consideration.
We can’t hide stuff like Mai Lai, and all we can do is try to fix the present and future to avoid stuff like this, such as the detainee camps for Japanese-Americans during WWII and the systematic genocide of Native Americans.
We are far from saints, and to accuse Castro of the same crap we pulled is pure hypocrasy. The biggest difference is that we at least accept blame for what we’ve done.