Pfft, a straight line is just a really big circle. So all you linear fighters are just in denial about doing crappy bagua on a giant circle. 
How’s this? Your comment:
“really most of what bagua is is XingYi done in circles.”
is nonsense. It is rather more revealing about your lack of understanding of baguazhang than about bagua itself. I can explain my point real well but I’d be first interested your explanation of your comment.
Originally posted by XVampireX
DoGcHoW108 and Felipe Bido: You’re both correct… However, its still not AS circular AS bagua stepping.
LOL..I think that’s too damn evident to even give an opinion about it. Xingyi turns are a half circle
Originally posted by Buddy
How’s this? Your comment:
“really most of what bagua is is XingYi done in circles.”
is nonsense. It is rather more revealing about your lack of understanding of baguazhang than about bagua itself. I can explain my point real well but I’d be first interested your explanation of your comment.
Thankyou for an elaborate version of an ignorant response. Accordant with your request, I will try to explain in simple what I mean- though I dont feel it necessary to.
Handwork in XingYi is very reminiscent of Bagua’s with it’s Intercrossing of arms to create locks, throws, etc. (good examples are Heng and Zuan chuen, but really all 5 and much of the animal system contain this).
The stepping, although linear in appearance, can be used very efficiently in applications of “linear” XingYi (again, monkey is a good example. Dragon, too. I dont know, so far, any other animals but i dont believe i will be too surprized when i learn others.) Actually, there are some steps in xingYi that might surprise you as far as turning and applicability in circles.
Other things, like the waist, posture and other structural components are very similar as well.
Thus, Bagua builds on much of what XingYi has to teach. Really, Bagua is what XingYi is trying to tell, or, hint to us.
This, as far as my comment, is an oversimplified but general explanation of my “nonsense”.
The truth is that the only thing “Linear” about XingYi it is that the forms go in a straiglt line (as you might know, obsession with forms leads to all sorts of malfunctions and corruptions in martial arts and people’s understanding of them). But I don’t really expect you to know too much about this, since you sound like a beginner who got his ideas about Xingyi from Jet Li in “The One”. You want to defend the uniqueness of your MA, and to some degree I understand that. But really, your response to my comment is “rather more revealing about your lack of understanding” of how martial arts relate to one another.
You seem to have absolutely NO knowlege or understanding (at best) of Hong and Ssu Jing circles in XingYi. Right off, this concept would show you how much is behind the dogmatic notion that XingYi is completely A to B linear and thus completely different from and unrelated to Bagua. Maybe DO you know- in which case i pity you for learning so slowly.
Perhaps you know better than I think you do, in which case you should restrain your comments about my information and inquire rather than assault. I am here to be your freind and a possible means of learning and teaching. I, myself, havent been in xingyi for very long at all and I would like to learn.
Originally posted by DoGcHoW108
But I don’t really expect you to know too much about this, since you sound like a beginner who got his ideas about Xingyi from Jet Li in “The One”.
HA! Now I need to see that movie.
<Thankyou for an elaborate version of an ignorant response. Accordant with your request, I will try to explain in simple what I mean- though I dont feel it necessary to.>
Actually my answer was succinct.
<Handwork in XingYi is very reminiscent of Bagua’s with it’s Intercrossing of arms to create locks, throws, etc. (good examples are Heng and Zuan chuen, but really all 5 and much of the animal system contain this).>
Reminiscent? That’s a bit different than saying it’s the same.
<The stepping, although linear in appearance, can be used very efficiently in applications of “linear” XingYi (again, monkey is a good example. Dragon, too. I dont know, so far, any other animals but i dont believe i will be too surprized when i learn others.) Actually, there are some steps in xingYi that might surprise you as far as turning and applicability in circles.>
It might surprise you what doesn’t surprise me.
<Other things, like the waist, posture and other structural components are very similar as well.>
Similar? Perhaps. I would say they both use a basic structure and neijin.
<Thus, Bagua builds on much of what XingYi has to teach. Really, Bagua is what XingYi is trying to tell, or, hint to us.>
So what you’re saying is Bagua is what Xingyi wants to be? That Bagua is more refined, sophisticated?
<This, as far as my comment, is an oversimplified but general explanation of my “nonsense”.>
Your comment was Bagua is Xingyi done on a circle. I stand by my assertion.
<The truth is that the only thing “Linear” about XingYi it is that the forms go in a straiglt line (as you might know, obsession with forms leads to all sorts of malfunctions and corruptions in martial arts and people’s understanding of them). But I don’t really expect you to know too much about this, since you sound like a beginner who got his ideas about Xingyi from Jet Li in “The One”.>
And yet I use my real name and my background is well known to many here. Feel free to investigate it before making such ignorant assumptions.
<You want to defend the uniqueness of your MA, and to some degree I understand that. But really, your response to my comment is “rather more revealing about your lack of understanding” of how martial arts relate to one another.>
Once again, both share common basics. Beyond that they are different.
>You seem to have absolutely NO knowlege or understanding (at best) of Hong and Ssu Jing circles in XingYi. Right off, this concept would show you how much is behind the dogmatic notion that XingYi is completely A to B linear and thus completely different from and unrelated to Bagua. Maybe DO you know- in which case i pity you for learning so slowly.>
OK a straw man. You said they were the same. I never said they were unrelated. They share structure, the use of whole body power, and neijin. Beyond that they are different.
<Perhaps you know better than I think you do, in which case you should restrain your comments about my information and inquire rather than assault.>
Assault? Your comment was wrong. I merely pointed that out. But thanks for the behavior lesson.
<I am here to be your freind and a possible means of learning and teaching. I, myself, havent been in xingyi for very long at all and I would like to learn.>
My friend? I don’t know you or your background. You use a phoney name and claim some understanding. Not untypical on this board. I have no problem with friendly discourse and a degree of public sharing but you resort to personal attack. I commented on your statements, you commented on me. The bottom line is Xingyi is not Bagua.
Hi,
Okay, while they are different, I cannot see anything in Xinyi that isn’t in Taiji. Taiji has alot of everything! The way I view it, is in Xinyi, your body moves like a ball rolling forward. My feet will grip the floor as they “roll” forward while stepping, and Taiji is ggod for that training this as well as Xinyi. The waist turns like an axle in xinyi, just as in Taiji. Taiji has Splitting, drilling, crushing, pounding and crossing. And Taiji has palm changing The way I view it, the oldest written thing on Xinyi , I’ve found on the net about Xinyi, states that it is Shaolin, external. I interpret that to mean that’s it’s a Muslim and Shaolin style.
As far as bagua, the palm changes seem to be inside twisting stepping, which is in other styles such as Karate and White Crane no? Or outwards twist stepping, which is in Taiji and shaolin styles, combined with internal, and Chan su jin energy. Unless bagua palm change is totally unique to bagua, then I would like to hear someone go ahead and explain how it is not so. Taiji has palm changing.
Originally posted by MMARULESonTMA
I’ve found on the net about Xinyi, states that it is Shaolin, external.
Xin Yi Ba of Shaolin, and Xin Yi Liuhe are two completely different styles. Even the names are written different, but their pinyin transcriptions are similar.
But are they truly different … or not related. Hard to prove No? Maybe spelled differently, but the origins are unknown, and can’t be attributed to one person or one place. But what I read on a site with a manuscript written a long time ago by masters, says xingyiquan is shaolin external
Right, threre’s so many so called "external " systems claiming to be from shaolin, and personally, the qi, and internal power of xinyi impresses me, although not as much as Taijiquan. Choy lay fut= different from Wing Chun. Both Shaolin
Originally posted by MMARULESonTMA
But what I read on a site with a manuscript written a long time ago by masters, says xingyiquan is shaolin external
They are not related.
And about that manuscript…MA historians would love to see that manuscript, you know, because no one has found anything that relates XINYIQUAN (Xingyiquan came after) to Shaolin. The guys on that site you talk about can do the MA world a great favor by telling them about the manuscript…
Of course…if the manuscript wasn’t channelled through some ancient spirit…eh? 
<Okay, while they are different, I cannot see anything in Xinyi that isn’t in Taiji. Taiji has alot of everything! The way I view it, is in Xinyi, your body moves like a ball rolling forward. My feet will grip the floor as they “roll” forward while stepping, and Taiji is ggod for that training this as well as Xinyi. The waist turns like an axle in xinyi, just as in Taiji. Taiji has Splitting, drilling, crushing, pounding and crossing. And Taiji has palm changing The way I view it, the oldest written thing on Xinyi , I’ve found on the net about Xinyi, states that it is Shaolin, external. I interpret that to mean that’s it’s a Muslim and Shaolin style.
As far as bagua, the palm changes seem to be inside twisting stepping, which is in other styles such as Karate and White Crane no? Or outwards twist stepping, which is in Taiji and shaolin styles, combined with internal, and Chan su jin energy. Unless bagua palm change is totally unique to bagua, then I would like to hear someone go ahead and explain how it is not so. Taiji has palm changing.>>>
I don’t know where to even begin! The body method is completely different in Karate/White Crane and any of the “internal” arts. When you say Taiji has palm changing, what do mean? What do think it means in Baguazhang? What does being a Muslim have to do internal arts? Shaolin is generic in the way you use it. Do you mean external? long fist? Taji is not Xing/Xin yi is not Bagua and certainly not karate or bai he.
You can’t tell me that inside or outside twist step is not in ither martial arts. By Palm change , I maen a palm comes under the other palm, clears it, and changes. Or over the other palm. It’s in Taiji, and appears to be in Luihe bafa, and I learned on another site that the full name for it is xinyi luihe bafa. So xinyi luihe quan must be related to xinyi luihe bafa, which comes from the same time period as Zhang San Feng, there are animals forms, and more Taiji like forms in the style apparently
I’m also interested to know where the Splitting, Drilling, Crushing, Pounding and Crossing are in the Taiji forms…
And, since you’re talking about XINYIQUAN, Not, Xingyiquan, where can I find the principles of the 10 animals in the Taiji forms?—Thanks.-
Splitting is in many, many moves. Part wild horse’s mane immediately comes to mind. Not to mention Buddha’s warrior pounds mortar. Drilling is in so many moves, I think it is funadamental to every move, but White Ape presents fruit is one. Beng quan is literally in the form. Pao? Buddha’s warrior pounds mortar again, as well as MOST fajin movements, and part wild horses mane on both sides, and Shake both feet, as well as jade girl weaves shuttle. Heng is in any move to the corner, like lazy about tying coat.
As far as animals, well, I only know a few. But there are big animals and small animals. And there is big 6 sealing and 4 closing, as well as regular 6 sealing and closing
I know about direction, but I’m talking about the internal energies in the movements. Please, expand on that. It’s very interesting-
Info on Xinyi Luihe bafa, posted by Xango
As far as internal energy of heng, well, I don’t so much xinyi, I view it crossing an arm over your body, and hitting with the shoulder, or any part of the whole body, and at the same time, the other palm can come over, crossing in the other direction, hitting with the palm, then crossing back over with the main arm, to hit the opponent perhaps in the throat, although that’s not the application I would use for lazy about tying coat and 6 sealing. Just in xingyi you’d do it facing forward I think, maybe not.
“Lazy About Tying Coat” doesn’t have the same energy as Heng…even if they look the same. That’s one of the problems with Heng Quan (And other moves) in Xingyiquan. You see it, and you think you know what’s going on…but you have to feel it.
Heng Quan has crossing energy only at the end, to emphasize Cun Jin. While Lan Zha Yi uses a wave that comes from the center of the body, outwards.
Xingyiquan has a Lan Zha Yi move…but you have to go to the old, rare Xingyi families to see it. When I was learning the move, I tried to use Heng energy to do it, and the root of my shoulders hurt for like a week. Using the wrong jing, perhaps.
Well, I think it does have heng for sure but using the shoulder, and with a different direction. One hand goes over the other, almost like silat or stickfighting. I don’t think you can even catergories the energies as 5. Some are done internally with no movement. But what I’ve seen, heng was a longer energy, rather than a short energy, and was from opening one side with a small close on the other, which is like alot of xingyi postures, one side long and open the other closed tightly
That’s beyond me, and seriously, what I know of xingyi is very limited. In the bear form i learned though, it definately uses Pi, tsuan, and heng, short and long power. Lazy about tying coat is a bigger open movement, compared to others, as is heng, and they both cross side to side. WHat is heng, from what I’ve seen it’s a big long backhand or palm strike to the ear, not so much a tight closed fist, but I’ve only seen a couple animals.
Originally posted by MMARULESonTMA
WHat is heng, from what I’ve seen it’s a big long backhand strike to the ear,
Heng is nothing like that. That’s exactly what I’m talking about…what you see on the outside, most of the time is different of what really goes on inside your body.-
Pi Quan is closer to a backhand strike to the ear than Heng. Do a search on ‘Fan Pi Quan’ (Turned Splitting Fist), and you’ll see a backhanded slap to the ear.
No, that’s not what I meant, Pi quan is pushing downwards while pulling back. The best application would be catch a kick lifting it up, pull it back while slamming the back of the opponents head to the ground. I don’t see a back hand there. The best heng I’ve seen, was like a whirlwind strike, a big palm to ear, not a tight in crossing. Then what energy, do whirlwing palm type strikes use? But I could see a smaller heng move being used to break the opponents structure from the side in close.