Beginner questions.

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

Hey, I’m just starting to get into martial arts and am really interested in Kung Fu especially. However, I’m having a bit of trouble getting started. I bought “The Art of Shaolin Kung Fu: The Secrets of Kung Fu for Self-Defense, Health, and Enlightenment” by Wong Kiew Kit, and have read it pretty in depth. While I’ve certainly learned a lot and have started doing some simple exercises like training for the horseriding stance, I’m not really sure where to go from here (I know that the obvious step would be to start taking actual classes, but I’ll be starting college in a few weeks and it would be really hard.)

There are some sets in the book, but they all seem too complex for a beginner to do, especially with the illustrations being so vauge. What also has me confused is that they’re a mix of a bunch of different styles. Out of all the styles presented in the book and everything I’ve read on the internet the leopard style really suits me best and I’d really love to learn it, but I can’t find a single book or dvd that teaches it. I’ve searched Google, Amazon, Ebay, Abebooks, interlibrary loan. Am I misinterpreting the way that I’m supposed be learning it, or is there some Chinese word of leopard kung fu that I’m missing? I’m really confused, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

2

Hi and welcome.

1 - that book is not too bad at giving you a literary introduction to CMA. You are correct, you need to start classes somewhere if you really want to train.

2 - you can probably train ma bu from the book just fine for starters. If nothing else, you will build some stamina.

3 - Do you want to take classes?

4 - If so, please let us know where you are and someone can probably direct you to a school.

5 - Don’t get ‘sold’ on CMA. You may not be in an area that has a decent CMA school much less a crappy school. Go with the best recommended school irregardless of style where you like the teacher and feel comfortable in.

Good luck and supply us with more info and we’ll try to help.

oh…

6 - ignore the idjits, there are many. :smiley:

3

If you’re going to a college there should be a great variety of arts to study on campus. What college are you going to?

Even if you don’t find Kung Fu, I’m sure you can find something that interests you. Oso’s recommendations are spot on.

4

Thanks for the speedy replies,

I definitly want to take classes, I just want to wait a few weeks into school to make sure I have a handle on all of my coursework first. I’m going to WPI in Worcester, MA. I’m not really sure if there are any schools there or not.

What exactly does CMA stand for? I agree with you that it’s probably more important to find a school that has a good reputation and that I feel comfortable at, but I’m concerned that I’d be investing a lot of time in a style that might not be right for me.

5

CMA stands for Chinese Martial Art.

And I know how you feel, kinda. I’m leaving for New York in 4 days, and am leaving my lovely, little, one of a kind, traditional, Chan Family Choy Lee Fut School behind, and I can already feel the emptiness that I’m gonna feel with no Choy Lee Fut to learn, but alot of colleges are big enough that you will find many people into Kung Fu for you to train with, and some people who are qualified to teach. Like my friend is going to UCSD, and he’s not sure if he will teach there, but he’s been doing Lohan Kungfu for about 10 years now, and is qualified. I’m sure you can find someone to teach you, and if not, most schools (at least the ones that I researched) had some form of martial art as a PE class, and while very few have Traditional CMA (most have JMA), something is better than nothing.

So if you can get free classes as PE credit through the school, go for it.

And yeah, you need to start taking classes. A book isn’t enough.

And alot of styles incorporate Leopard Paw, Choy Lee Fut has some, but you probably want to do 5 Family 5 Animal style; I’m pretty sure that’s the most exposure you’ll get to leopard paw of any style, unless there’s a Leopard Paw school, but I’ve never heard of it as its own independent style.

6

Oh I understand better now…I didn’t realize that those five animals were one style. Since that’s the case, can anyone reccommend good “5 animal style” books?

As for classes, I’m already signed up for classes in my first year and can’t add any PE courses, and I’m not sure if martial arts was even an option. However, the school does have a martial arts club. There arn’t really any details on it that I can find, but maybe that will help.

There is one school that I can find in Worcester. “Maury’s Looang Foo Pai Kung Fu Academy - Huan Shou Gong Fu.” http://www.mauryskungfu.com/
Do you guys have an opinion on this? What sets Looang Foo Pai apart from other styles? Seems pretty legit to me.

Thanks again.

7

Mate, if you can’t find some reasonable kung fu and even CLF in NY, you can’t find your arse with a flashlight! :smiley:

8

OK, bearing in mind that it’s a McDojo and teaches a style created by a westerner in 1963, from the photos there’s not much structurally wrong with what they do.
If you’re willing to travel a bit, there’s a school of good lineage in Acton teaching changquan, tongbei, fantzi,baji and pigua, which is an uncommon and cool selection.
Key, there are 2 New York Choy Li Fut instructors on this board!

9

My recomendation to you, as someone who studies Kung Fu with all his heart, is go find the brazillian ju-jitsu club at your new school. There’s bound to be one, it will most likely be free, you’ll make friends on campus, and you’ll get to apply a lot of techniques very quickly… in no time at all you’ll be playing at full speed and you won’t risk serious injury.

If you enter the average Kung Fu school, by Christmas you’ll know two forms at most, three if you’re a super genious, and will have begun the process of ruining your knees. You won’t be riding horses or shooting arrows from atop a fortification… you don’t need to train that way with stances anymore. It is a remnant of an antique training method.

Look at boxers. Look at UFC fights. Look at Kung Fu in the rare circumstances that they do fight… they are never in that position. They are never static.

If I was you, knowing what I know now, find the BJJ club. After 8 months of training there, you’ll have a pretty good eye already and will be able to go and look at schools and judge their credibility.

If you do this, I’m willing to bet you a box of candy cains you won’t end up at a leapord school:)

10

The Art of Shaolin Kung Fu: The Secrets of Kung Fu for Self-defence, Health and Enlightenment - Wong Kiew Kit

Good for the 5 animal set

Complete Book of Shaolin: Comprehensive Program for Physical, Emotional, Mental and Spiritual Development - Kiew Kit Wong

Good for training

Introduction to Shaolin Kung Fu - Kiew Kit Wong

If you don’t know the basic stances and hand positions get this.

Get a good teacher too. Because I’ve trained in kungfu I can pick up basics from books but I would still require transmission form teachers and training partners.

There are videos of the set on his site too:

http://www.wongkk.com

Hope it helps. Did I mention to get a teacher yet? I did? Well I’ll say it again, because it’s important. Get a good teacher.

peace

11

That’s some good advice, Ray. However, you have to consider the reasons for training. sempronius might just be looking for a fun workout to relieve some stress, some self-defense techniques, and a dab of Chinese culture.

If someone asked me “Do you want to keep practicing MyJhong or do you want to learn Brazilian JuJitsu?” My response would be “Yes!”(meaning both.)

However, I’m not in college (unfortunately) so I would, in theory have the time (if not the money or access to instruction) to practice both. I like the idea of ground manipulation and being able to defend myself on my back, but I also like forms, strikes, kicks, and weapons. sempronious might not enjoy that advantage, and would have to choose. It would be good to learn one and gain a foundation before mixing in the other for the time being though.

This forum is filled with threads on proposed purposes and guidelines for stance training, so I won’t get into it here, except to say that as long as the knee doesn’t extend past the toes (and they shouldn’t in any stance, except low stance, in which your butt is pulling you down and back, thus reducing and offsetting the forward push on the knee.) you shouldn’t have to worry about messing up your knees. Make sure to stretch, and ask your instructor, or even a Phys. Ed coach for ways to prepare your knees for rigorous activity.

12

I guess I have a prejudice that when I hear someone wants to take up a martial art I assume they want to learn how to defend themselves realistically.

Now, I’m not saying BJJ will serve that purpose exclusively on the street. But on day one he/she will be hands on, getting resistance training. Like I said, after 8 months of this he/she wil have a nice foundation and a means to judge a technique’s practicality. From there, they can go and judge schools for themself with some insight.

http://www.floridakungfu.com/images/images/junior-kung-fu-horse-stance.jpg
http://www.pa-kua.com/fyi22/s2overheadpress.jpg

Stances like the above WILL hurt your knee. Any time your knee joint is at or around a 90 degree angle or higher, it is supporting weight. If you drop your weight completely down, not ease it down, then it is safe.

I know a lot of people enjoy doing alot of things that may not be healthy for them. For years I put excessive amounts of marijuana smoke into my lungs KNOWING that it was no good for me.

This is a person with no experience. This person, more than anyone should be given the truth: Most kung fu schools stress forms, which, while pretty and a connection to an oriental past that many of us find romantic, take up a lot of training time that could be used training less romantic but highly more effective drills.

Now, I have found this in a Chinese Internal Martial Arts taught by a Chinese Internal Martial Artists. I’m definitely not the only one, there are other Kung Fu players out there receiving good, realistic training that is effective… I’ve been training since I was 4 … it took me nearly 25 years to find my master.

Whoever this is needs to be informed the best they can and then let them make a decision. Chances are, walking into your average commercial kung fu school, you’ll be asked to buy a chinse kung fu uniform, train stances and be taught form. You’ll participate in very cooperative drills that will not increase much in intensity and be surrounded by senior students with 5+ years of training and ZERO, none, 0, actuall, out of school fighting experience with other trained martial artists.

This is true for AT LEAST 85% of the commercial CMA schools out there and this is being generous. At a BJJ school, the person will be tested at every class. The students most likely compete.

From here, from this knowledge, then they could go and see if the stand up game being taught at a school seems reasonable. They’ll know, well, I learned to get out of that lock by being on the ground and having someone try to lock me. First copperatively, but after a few weeks I can stop that attack at full power.

They’ll be able to spot Mickey Mouse stand up training after this.

13

I’d tell the kid to do Judo over Bjj if he’s going the self defense route. Judo has the same techniques as Bjj (with some variation), and has the tradition that a lot of people look for in Asian MAs. Furthermore, in any Judo club on a college campus, you’ll have the wrestlers and Bjj players crosstraining as well so you’ll be learning bjj variations anyway.

Not to knock Bjj, but its really only half the style it derived from, and it usually costs a heck of a lot more.

14

I like the idea of starting with a style that will give me a solid foundation and some immediate feedback like the bjj or judo you were talking about, but for the long term I think kung fu would be better for me.

http://www.wpi.edu/Campus/Activities/

That’s the list of clubs at my school right now, and these are the only ones that really apply unless I’m missing something.

Freestyle Wrestling Club
Shotokan Karate Club
Society of Martial Artists

Looks like that last one actually provides classes in Boxing, Vale Tudo, Bando, Tae Kwon Do, Bushido-Zen Karate. Any opinion on these?

I’ll definitly check out those books jacksawild, thanks.

Ben Gash, mapquest says that trip would be about 40 minutes one way…I’m not really sure if I could swing that. However I’m still interested. How many times per week would/should I be going? Is there anything closer?

Thanks again for all your help!

15

you’re right about the cost, but didn’t bjj come from fusen / kosen? that was a style of judo that focused primarily on the ne waza aspect.

16

Nope. Kosen emerged in Japan in 1914, and Maeda left for Brazil in 1904. Kosen and Bjj developed independantly of each other.

Maeda was a Judoka, and so was Kimura who later defeated Helio Gracie.

17

yeah, I know kimura was, but I believe maeda was a fusen guy…

18

…but for the long term I think kung fu would be better for me.

why?..

19

Maeda wasn’t a fusen guy. He was a Judoka who favored newaza. Which is why there’s little to no difference in techniques between Judo and Bjj. The only difference lies in philosophy and competition rules.

20

While it is not quite so clear a case of BJJ-uber-alles, the above quoted paragraph is quite correct. Focusing on basic principles and force-feedback (randori), Judo and BJJ develop concrete and usable skills in a (comparatively) very short period.

Afterwards, should you choose to move on, you will be much more equipped to discern good from bad re: Martial Arts.