http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NlkpAOzyMo&feature=related
My critique: There’s no landing. No one is hitting each other, thus no honest feedback. If anything, bad habits can be engrained with this type of thing.
Why not headgear and gloves and let it go free?
IMHO,
I agree to a certain point. especially about the no landing. around 1:09 if i were the other guy i would have just kept cool since none of those strikes were going to land. but you’re right, why wear the gloves if not going to strike. perhaps they did so for the just in case moments. this kind of sparring is good for the beginners tho, it helps to figure out what works for them and what doesn’t.
I like the punches in bunches. I like the hand speed and aggression… but even for beginners, I’d rather forgo that type of sparring and focus on hand-related drills, develop the jamming, intercepting… whatever it is the style is looking to achieve.
When they’re ready to spar, I’d rather slow it down, even take the power and intensity down to 40 percent but allow landing… then you learn to guard for the front kick to the midsection when charging in. You learn one good shot leads to two good follow up shots. I know nobody likes it, but it teaches you to take a shot and keep in plan.
That type of sparring develops a false sense of security. Wave your hands fast and furious and back everyone up.
I just found that video while watching some Bak Mei stuff. The other stuff I saw was mostly form. Not bad.
That lacked the fundamental entry strategies, intent, techniques, and pretty much any other attribute I would recognize as Pak Mei. They would probably end up better off if they didn’t train.
I am not putting down the individuals in the video, but I do not in any way agree with the training depicted there.
That footage looks better than Dave Ross’s san da fight. When the month is over we should all ask him about that fight. Maybe a little more bak mei training would have helped him.
meh. too much up and down using just the front hand. (might be cool if they held a blade…)
But I did like the usage of the front leg foot sweep to upset balance. That was cool.
not crazy about that…but, I noticed one thing those guy were weeding out of themselves and that was flinch response.
They were staying in the grind even when the flurry was happening.
so that’s a good thing.
the lack of mobility and commitment to strikes due to further lack of protective gear which would allow it is the downfall. You gotta move!
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1133511]not crazy about that…but, I noticed one thing those guy were weeding out of themselves and that was flinch response.
They were staying in the grind even when the flurry was happening.
so that’s a good thing.
the lack of mobility and commitment to strikes due to further lack of protective gear which would allow it is the downfall. You gotta move![/QUOTE]
its easy not to flinch when you know your not going to get hit, not being funny but that was not sparring and i suspect the first time one of them gets hit hard they will flinch and fold, not a criticsm of them but rather the training method used
Functional Bak mei sparring 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXc7txj5yCk&feature=related
But that’s Rodney King and he’s definitely not a bak mei guy. He’s more of an everything has it’s merits sort of guy.
I like Rodney’s stuff fwiw, really functional useful fighting methods and techs, no mysticism, no bs, just straight up, hit hard hit fast stuff.
I can’t say what those guys are doing above, but what it looks like to me, is something that’s you’d do before a fight. Working on getting position, underhooks, and simulating the attach you’d go through.
If that was their sparring, it would be equally terrible.
Nope, that’s an instructional.
Rodney is a BJJ BB, an mma coach and had some success in both boxing and in muay thai. He started boxing in Sef effrica under one of the top guys in joburg and kept going.
Sparring without contact is pretty much useless and does nothing but build bad habits. You could argue that you are still learning footwork, body movement, muscle memory, those types of things, but sparring how those guys were gives people a false sense of what they can do.
Too often Kung Fu turns into this speed crazy slapfest such as this where the intent seems to be to throw as many strikes as possible to look blazing fast and cool. This is not the same as in boxing where you have punches in bunches that are fast but still powerful and with intent to hit each time, and that really is the difference.
Honestly sparring with no pads I just don’t care for anymore. Even if you are going hard to body style (Kyokushin) pulling shots to the head builds bad habits. Granted when sparring with smaller MMA gloves and such you really cant power up and strike like you would a good boxing training glove, but solid contact is still where it is at. It still cracks me up at my gym when we spar hard we wear boxing gloves, head hear, ect and I still hear the traditonal guys say crap like big gloves take away real technique, or some other complete and utter horse sh**it and continue to do the kind of crap in this video.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1133452]My critique: There’s no landing. No one is hitting each other, thus no honest feedback. If anything, bad habits can be engrained with this type of thing.
Why not headgear and gloves and let it go free?[/QUOTE]
I agree with you Ray… but just to play the Devils advocate and look at the opposite:
When sparring with students for over 20 years now, I have noticed that when students wear head gear, they tend to “Let” themselves get hit in the head because it does not hurt with a “Head Gear” on.
Same thing goes for chest protectors and such. Anything that absorbs the blow tends to NOT let the student feel it. Then they sorta are ok with getting hit because there is no consequence.
ginosifu
I agree with you.
Personally, when I spar I use boxing gloves, a mouth piece and a cup. That’s it.
When I was teaching in NY I had my students wear caged headgear. Every once in a while someone would complain that they couldn’t see through the cage… so I said they didn’t need to wear it. 100% of the time they chose to wear it – at first.
I prefer my students to feel the blow. Even if they are more willing to stand and trade. A good shot to the head still snaps the head back. Usually someone gets overwhelmed and turns their back, and which point I stop the action.
I believe at first in headgear and gloves with full contact but quick stoppage. It doesn’t take long for students to progress to less gear and able to monitor themselves. After about 8 to 10 months of give and take they lose the ego and focus more on technique.
The other stuff is just masturbation. To train martial arts it to punch and be punched in the nose. There’s no way around it.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1133537]I agree with you.
Personally, when I spar I use boxing gloves, a mouth piece and a cup. That’s it.
The other stuff is just masturbation. To train martial arts it to punch and be punched in the nose. There’s no way around it.[/QUOTE]
I only wear finger less gloves, mouth piece and foot gear (like shin and instep guard). All of my advanced students are supposed to be able do the same. Eventually you need be a bit more realistic when sparring / san shou / san da etc etc. We even take it to ground and to tap out. That’s when it gets really fun.
ginosifu
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1133527][QUOTE=Ben Gash;1133526]Functional Bak mei sparring
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXc7txj5yCk&feature=related[/QUOTE]
But that’s Rodney King and he’s definitely not a bak mei guy. He’s more of an everything has it’s merits sort of guy.
I like Rodney’s stuff fwiw, really functional useful fighting methods and techs, no mysticism, no bs, just straight up, hit hard hit fast stuff.[/QUOTE]
Heck yeah, I trained at a SBG school which taught Rodney’s stuff. It was awesome.
Then I had to move to start my new job (I had just graduated from college at the time) and there were no cool schools around where I moved to.
They would put us against the wall and have us block punches with CM. It’s good for beginners because you can’t go backward, which is most beginners’ natural instinct.
They fully understood the concept of “aliveness.” Everything we did was “alive.” There was no silly slap hands boxing or 10 hit counters to punches because your opponent leaves his arm extended after a punch, and when we would warm up at the beginning of each class with punches and CM drills, if you didn’t block, you got hit. I know a lot of schools like to do punch drills but the punch never even comes close to hitting you anyway even if you didn’t block it or get out of the way.
That’s not to say we beat the crap out of each other, but you would get hit if you didn’t block it.
I think that’s good training. It teaches realistic distancing and dynamics for when an opponent is actually trying to hit you.
Oh, and our instructors would box and roll with us. There was none of this “our instructor is too deadly to spar” nonsense nor did our instructors have big egos that would be shattered if a student actually got a shot in on them. The instructors were also in awesome shape, and had good technique. One was a cop and also competed in MMA. We would trade partners throughout the class so everyone would box/roll with everyone else, including the instructors, during most classes,
It was pretty much the opposite of most TMA schools.
“it was pretty much the opposite of most tma schools” 
except this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kIeI8hKr7o
Traditional psycho shooto training!
Pak what?
Umm as far as I can remember these guys are sort of an offshoot system and they have ‘‘improved’’ their Bak Mei. I think this is the club , if it isn’t the spirit is the same. This was the write up I saw before :
Hung Leng Kuen is suitable for young, mature, male, female, total beginners and those who have trained before. Under the Instruction of Si Gung Tim Kendall, Hung Leng Kuen Kung Fu/Wu Shu is a style developed by Founder and lifetime practitioner, Grand Master Sijo J.R. Dutton from several Martial Art styles, incorporating the traditional animal-based forms, Shaolin Longfist, pak mei, Chinese boxing, t’ai chi, chi kung, ba gwa / pa qua and weaponry.
This stuff looks nothing at all like the Bak Mei I am familiar with and the sparring even less so.
Not a lot of BM sparring seen online but I would not take this vid or related ones (there is another club that does similar things online and also is a mixed system) as Bak Mei.
Really I can’t begin to say what i think about the quality of this stuff.
R
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1133552]“it was pretty much the opposite of most tma schools”
except this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kIeI8hKr7o
Traditional psycho shooto training![/QUOTE]
Someone needs to turn around and smack that guy in the mouth… notice he hits no one bigger than himself… shameful.
R