Baji & Xingyi

size does not mean you would have a stronger punch its a proven fact

Skill being equal, size and weight does make a difference.
Many times size and weight without skill make a formidable blow.
Everything must follow certain laws of nature, even martial arts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3doyXlLkPo&NR

Dan Da: one man part of 2 man drill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42pM7uTxUKc&mode=related&search=

Dui Lian: 2 man drill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPZ1jKc3seI&mode=related&search=

clips from Meng Chun in celebration of Wu Xiu Feng birthday.

:slight_smile:

Ray has a good point or two.
Msg-
You must be new to the martial arts. All things being equal, the bigger, stronger fighter will win. Physics boy, physics. That is the “proof.”
I have studied both Baji and Xing Yi, and in the end all this coversation is accomplishing is a lot of mental masturbation. Their is no ONE style with the single most powerful anything, or we would all be training that ONE style. Training is what seperates the “girls from the boys” so to speak. Just because you train __________ (fill in the blank) does not mean you will have the strongest anything. How do you train? How were you taught? Where in your training are you? ETC. ETC.
I have met Baji guys who could not throw a decent punch if their life depended on it, same with Xing Yi.
If you all really, truly want to understand things better I suggest analyzing the principles behind the technique/style. If you understand one principle you will understand 10,000 techniques. Just because you understand 10,000 techniques does not mean you understand one principle! We are all governed by the same laws (gravity being one example), so these discussions that start with “Which style is more…” are silly to the point of craziness.

Hope that helps,
Cheers
Jake :cool:

Here is a very nice clip of xiao baji jia (from outside the Wu Tan circles):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfY32aGvAS8

[QUOTE=Three Harmonies;733191]If you understand one principle you will understand 10,000 techniques. Just because you understand 10,000 techniques does not mean you understand one principle![/QUOTE]

I know what you were going for in the above statement, but I couldn’t resist nit-picking. :slight_smile: I think it might be more accurate to say “just because you can execute/apply”, because if you understand the technique, you understand the principle behind it. :slight_smile:

Hey bro. I too think I know what you are getting at, but if I may…
The main problem I see with many teachers is that they do not understand WHY something works. They may know HOW it works perfectly, inside and out. But not WHY. This is not the systems problem, this is the issue with the individual teacher. This is what differentiates a good teacher, from a good practitioner! I know many people who can apply certain techniques flawlessly, but when you ask them to break down the reasoning as to why it works, they stare at you blankly. Nothing wrong with that, we are all in different places on our own paths.
My overall point is every style has something to offer. All styles are powerful, though certain ones cater to certain things. No one style is more powerful than another, or we all would be studying that one style.
Cheers
Jake :smiley:

[QUOTE=Three Harmonies;733366]Hey bro. I too think I know what you are getting at, but if I may…
The main problem I see with many teachers is that they do not understand WHY something works. They may know HOW it works perfectly, inside and out. But not WHY. This is not the systems problem, this is the issue with the individual teacher. This is what differentiates a good teacher, from a good practitioner! I know many people who can apply certain techniques flawlessly, but when you ask them to break down the reasoning as to why it works, they stare at you blankly. Nothing wrong with that, we are all in different places on our own paths.
My overall point is every style has something to offer. All styles are powerful, though certain ones cater to certain things. No one style is more powerful than another, or we all would be studying that one style.
Cheers
Jake :D[/QUOTE]

I agree with your statement and knew what you meant, I was just nit-picking. :smiley:

No worries. I am glad at least one person got it :wink: :smiley:

One similarity is in the feet

Interesting Theory

There is a theory that says that the similarity in Xingyi’s and Baji’s stomping of the feet could be more geographical than anything.

In fact, Hebei practitioners of both systems are more well known for stomping their feet than martial artists of the same systems in other regions. There was a saying that went something like, "it sounds like he/she learned their martial arts in Hebei. "

Some say Hebei Xingyi is the most popular form of Xingyi. Therefore, we have seen Hebei Xingyi demonstrated more often and have come to associate the loud stomping of the feet with Xingyi. Other Xingyi styles may not emphasize this as much.

Baji is said have originated in Hebei Province. And, Baji is also well known for the stomping of the feet. Some martial artists of Hebei have cross-trained in both styles and this also could have contributed to this similarity (a kind of bleed over from one to another, if you will). This is just a theory, but there could be some truth to it. What do you think?

Rueben@kungfuheaven.com
Please visit my site at www.kungfuheaven.com

I am sure geographical location has much to do with the cross pollination of many arts. It would only make sense that practitioners would learn from each other whether enemies or training brothers.

Some even surmise that Baji and Xingyi stem from similar sources.
Xingyi may be an offshoot of Baji or vice versa.
We will never know the real truth.

As long as we keep evolving, its all good to me.

[QUOTE=Three Harmonies;733366]

…may know HOW it works perfectly, inside and out. But not WHY.

[/QUOTE]

Well said!

A person who knows HOW can only perform one task; A person who knows WHY can derive his/her own techniques and take the art to a higher level.

Much like, a chef who can only copies recipes is no match with a chef who understands the art and can create his/her own recipes.

Just like a chef who one taste of a dish and he could reproduce it; a martial artist who understand the inner workings of the mind and body can integrate techniques into his own just by looking at or crossing hands with someone.

Cheers,
John

Nice to know HOW, better to know WHY.
Now if only people can actually DO.

I have met many an instructor who knows the ins, outs, how, why, etc. for any specific technique in their arsenal, but when the proverbial stuff hits the fan, they cannot deal.

Sad, but true.
Principles and threories are nice, but if you cannot apply it then it is worthless.

[QUOTE=samson818;733571]

Principles and threories are nice, but if you cannot apply it then it is worthless.

[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. That’s why we need to train. Otherwise, the body cannot reflect what we know.

Cheers,
John

Baji & Xingyi

I really admire how polite everyone is on this forum. It’s great. So, please be patient with me. Many of us know that practice is most important, however, some of us are just plain ole’ historians. And, we tend to use theory and background to help us understand. As for me…I learn better that way. It actually helps me understand the “Why”.

Rueben@kungfuheaven.com
Please visit my site at www.kungfuheaven.com

baiji vs xingyi

I believe that tongbei,baiji,and xingyi all share similarities in theories. They’re all very overtly powerful offensive styles and basically when it comes down to baiji vs xingyi punch it will all be based on internal and external strength of the person punching.

If you can’t apply it, you don’t really understand it. Understanding and knowledge are not the exclusive domain of the mind.