Respond to the same thread…
I posted this in respond to the same thread in the internal forum. I thought I should share this here as well.
The respond:
With all due respects…
“A mantis teacher in Taiwan Master Goa Daw-Shen told me this story but in a reverse ending, Gong won the fight, that’s why Jian left Lai-Yan ( jian’s home town ) and brought matis to other area, he even told me how they fight:
They agreed fight at noon, people was crowded that time, Jian arrived first, Gong didn’t show up near noon, Jian yelled : “you cowerd Gong, dare not fight with me”, " I’m coming " the word came from drowd accompanied with a man jumped in air ( Gong’s Qing-gong was famoused ), his right palm pearced to Jian’s face, it was so quick that Jian can only grabed Gong’s arm sweeped to his back ( Qing-Na ), Gong followed the sweep,changed his step, go around to Jian’s back ( you know Bagua ) and hited Jian’s kidney with left palm, Jian had no time to change step but only use his elbow hitted back, Gong pushed Jian’s elbow said:” I’m going " and disapeared in crowd; somebody said Jian won because Gong left first, but Jian left his home town then, somebody said it was Gong won.
It’s only a story, but I feel interested that their movements fit to their arts and habits, I think it’s not important who won or loss, but we can learn their maneer in the fight."
Mantis108: Frankly, I do not wish to speculate and I do not want to get involve in the politics. Like you suggested it is a story perhaps has merits in learning something about the different arts.
I have a few questions rather than answers to this description of the fight.
[" I’m coming " the word came from drowd accompanied with a man jumped in air ( Gong’s Qing-gong was famoused ),]
Mantis108: 1) Is jump to advance an entry method of the Pagua? From this description there seems to be an element of surprise rather than 2 people squaring off. Now, I am not saying there is foul play here but there is a strong sense of one side having an advantage of sort. At high leve contest, any minute changes is crucial.
[ his right palm pearced to Jian’s face, it was so quick that Jian can only grabed Gong’s arm sweeped to his back ( Qing-Na ), ]
Mantis108: 2) How is Jiang positioned? Which hand was he using to grab? There are more than 3 to 5 choices of Qin Na move can be executed with just the hands not to mention the use of the stances. This is quite a unique feature of Mantis footwork. The arms and legs are involved in trapping. If indeed Jiang was able to grab the incoming arm with the surprising speed, he too would have been ultra fast.
[Gong followed the sweep,changed his step, go around to Jian’s back ( you know Bagua ) and hited Jian’s kidney with left palm, Jian had no time to change step but only use his elbow hitted back, Gong pushed Jian’s elbow said:" I’m going " and disapeared in crowd;]
Mantis108: 3) Sorry, I can’t see what sweep it could have been. Let’s just follow along then. Granted Gong might be super fast and have wonderful footword. But personal experience tells me that Mantis is well aware of people going around infront or behind. This is in the basic training of Mantis Kung Fu. A master of Praying Mantis didn’t take this into account and was not ready for it?
I don’t mean to be disrespectful or anything. In this story, the logic seems to be “oh, I got you once, therefor I win the “match” (if we can call it that)” So if Ali ate lots of punches and then end up knocking a guy out, he’s still a loser (and therefore not a master of boxing) because he got hit too many times yet he’s the one standing at the end? Was the one hit declares the winner rule applied here? BTW, what was the rule of the contest or is it a no hold barr anything goes?
I don’t doubt the skill of either side and I have great respect for those who told the story for they might have witnessed or heard from the most reliable source but this story sounds to me a romantic martial arts novel version of a real contest. Personally, there are just too many missing details to make a good judgement of how the fight went. I guess there were no real winner or loser in any fights.
Peace
Mantis108
