looking it like that, to see who can hold the position the longers is a good way to see it yah, tx
@taai gihk yahn,
The picture of your master is pritty cool, it shows power and piece at the same time 
[QUOTE=Eugene;999161]@taai gihk yahn,
The picture of your master is pritty cool, it shows power and piece at the same time :)[/QUOTE]
I was thinking more in terms of stability and peace i.e. harmony/balance!
Making it easier for comparison by putting the four pictures altogether, look for the similarities and differences, copy by standing in front of a mirror with the pictures and try out each posture yourself for 5 - 10 minute without moving and see how it feels, use stability, being natural and comfortable (ziran) as your guide, having pain in the joints (not tightness) means you are doing something wrong, if your eyes cannot tell the difference then use your body awareness and time as your helper, that is the best and safest way to correct oneâs posture for self learning at home. May the (gravitational) Force be with you!
Age and fitness would determine the degree of mabu. For yangsheng vitalization, medium stance would be sufficent as opposed to the âextremeâ mabu of shaolin traditions. I have seen some systems of baduanjin stay in mabu when stretching both left and right as opposed to, when pulling left/right, rise up slightly then go down to pull to the opposite side!
I should mention that, when we do this posture, there is a first the component of equal weightedness (which you see in the picture I posted), and then there is a component that has the asymmetrical weight bearing, where you shift away from the âarrowâ side and raise the line of the straightened arm up to a diagonal (like the picture of the monk posted earlier); then there is a transitional movement of the arms for changing sides (which is hard to describe); so the first part is like the âdrawâ, the second part is like the âaimâ and the third is like the âreleaseâ of the string and taking the next arrow from the quiver and setting it on the string
this movement is basically a lung / large intestine meridian /sinew âstretchâ
u can also do it in a hi, mid or lo stance (or alternate, starting hi, getting lower on successive reps);
interesting that of all the examples, ours is the only one where the thumbs and 3rd - 5th fingers are in contact w/each other - Iâd be curious if anyone would experiment with both ways of doing it and see if they felt a difference (or not);
I tried what you have suggested and felt after a few minutes which one not to do because there is a huge difference, in one my qi is completely blocked, now I have a better understanding of what âone finger pointing to heavenâ means. Thanks for the experiment.
I am also going to try to copy the 4 pics out today, and see where it will take me,
[QUOTE=extrajoseph;999314]I tried what you have suggested and felt after a few minutes which one not to do because there is a huge difference, in one my qi is completely blocked, now I have a better understanding of what âone finger pointing to heavenâ means. Thanks for the experiment.[/QUOTE]
so which one did you feel the âqiâ to be âblockedâ, and at what point?
Why donât you try it yourself? You suggested the experiment in the first place.
Just push your arms out in opposing sides, pull the fingers back, hold one without the fingers touching each other in âone finger pointing to heavenâ configuration and the other with the 3rd - 5th fingers touching each other as you mentioned and see what happens.
Soon (no more than a couple of minutes for me) you will know in which one the qi is blocked and feel weaker and less powerful. You can also breath out and try to send the qi outward by straighten the arm a little and see which one responds better as well.
[QUOTE=extrajoseph;999339]Why donât you try it yourself? You suggested the experiment in the first place.
Just push your arms out in opposing sides, pull the fingers back, hold one without the fingers touching each other in âone finger pointing to heavenâ configuration and the other with the 3rd - 5th fingers touching each other as you mentioned and see what happens.
Soon (no more than a couple of minutes for me) you will know in which one the qi is blocked and feel weaker and less powerful. You can also breath out and try to send the qi outward by straighten the arm a little and see which one responds better as well.[/QUOTE]
ummm, are you serious? you really think I donât have an opinion / perspective on it, that somehow I am asking because I donât? âtry itâ? bro, Iâve been âtrying itâ that way and with variations for ~15 yrs. so I could talk all day in almost mind-numbing detail about my take on it; but that wouldnât be much of a conversation, would it? I mean, do you really WANT me to do that?
dude, I asked you because I was curious what your experience was with the different ways of doing it, as you did not specify which one you thought caused your âqiâ to be âblockedâ - I know what my personal experience is, but why would I assume that you necessarily had the same one as I did? that would be pretty arrogant; therefore, I asked you to clarify; and itâs ok if you donât want to answer my question as well, just say soâŚ
also the way that you describe getting into the posture (âpushingâ the arms out to the sides) is not going to get the actual effect that the movement is designed to get; just sayinââŚ
So why ask? You already knew.
Do you think it will make any difference of what Iâd say, after your 15 years of experience of feeling one way or another and knowing what it is all about in minute details?
Just continue what you are doing and it will be find.
[QUOTE=extrajoseph;999371]So why ask? You already knew.[/QUOTE]
are you really that obtuse? or are you just doing the âChinese thingâ?
as you are doubtless aware, this is a DISCUSSION forum
people come here to DISCUSS things
DISCUSSION usually involves two or more people sharing experiences
since you had mentioned your experience trying the two different ways, I was curious which one generated the results you mentioned; hence, I attempted to engage you in a DISCUSSION about it;
so thatâs why I asked;
[QUOTE=extrajoseph;999371]
Do you think it will make any difference of what Iâd say, after your 15 years of experience of feeling one way or another and knowing what it is all about in minute details?[/QUOTE]
well, while it will not make a major difference, it might perhaps give me another interesting perspective upon which to reflect: it depends; see, even after 15 years of practice, it is possible to actually gain benefit from hearing about the experience of others; in case you didnât notice, I didnât say anything about my own experience until after you assumed that I had not tried it myself - if I had come on initially stating how much I knew about it, that might have come across as arrogant; instead, I made a comment; you replied; I inquired further; then you made an assumption and it just degenerated from there, unfortunately;
[QUOTE=extrajoseph;999371]Just continue what you are doing and it will be find.[/QUOTE]
are you being sarcastic? if not, it seems strange that you would feel the need to state this otherwiseâŚ
Weâve done a lot with baduanjin
Eight Section brocade is one of the most popular qigong regimens in the world.
Hereâs some resources:
DVD
8 Section Brocade (Baduanjin) DVD with instruction manual CHQA version
Eight Pieces of Brocade by GM Tu Jinsheng
VHS
Eight Simple Qigong Exercises by Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming
[URL=âhttp://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-pr-tp002.htmlâ]
Ancient Oriental Health Exercises Eight Pieces of Silk Brocade
Music
8 Section Brocade
Poster
8-section brocade poster
Articles
The Eight Section Brocade: Qigong From Shaolin Temple By Gene Ching (May June 2001)
The Eight Section Brocade of General Yue Fei Qigong for the Warrior By PengCheng Chen and Feng Wu (Part 1 Jan Feb 2004, Part 2 Mar Apr 2004)
The 8 Section Brocade By Annie Rose (Nov Dec 2009)
âare you really that obtuse? or are you just doing the âChinese thingâ?
as you are doubtless aware, this is a DISCUSSION forum
people come here to DISCUSS things
DISCUSSION usually involves two or more people sharing experiences
since you had mentioned your experience trying the two different ways, I was curious which one generated the results you mentioned; hence, I attempted to engage you in a DISCUSSION about it;
so thatâs why I asked;â
If you want a genuine discussion, why use a trick question?
Just tell us how you felt after doing it for 15 years with the two different ways, instead of pretending you have just noticed the difference.
You have already told me what I have done wrong, but you still have not tell us how you are doing it right and how you feel, so where is the genuine sharing?
It feels like an ambush to me.
I was born Chinese, so I cannot help but doing the âChinese thingâ. :eek:
I tried each posture for a few minutes, and tried to do it relaxed, but my energie was blocked in the first pic, the warrior stance, also to breath costed me some more energy,
I guess the main thing is to check how the enery flows ? and the breathing goes,
@taai gihk yahn, well, my qi kinda stopped when I aimed high in the warrior stances, In the other 3 moves, it went better. But when I stood deep, but I aimed horizontal, the energy was better again, but I am not sure if this had to do with my stances condition, maybe if i have 30 years of practice with warrior stances, my qi would be just as good in a deep mabu stance, that i would also practice for 30 years.
I am more familiar with mabu`s then these over the knee warrior stances,
Its unbilieveble that one name or posture can have such a outcome, lucky BaduanJin doesnt have 40 postures!
Tx GeneChing for these links
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;999399
are you being sarcastic? if not, it seems strange that you would feel the need to state this otherwiseâŚ[/QUOTE]
No I am not being sarcastic, like I said earlier, trust your feeling and and your senses, it is your reality and what you are capable.
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;999399]well, while it will not make a major difference, it might perhaps give me another interesting perspective upon which to reflect: it depends; see, even after 15 years of practice, it is possible to actually gain benefit from hearing about the experience of others; in case you didnât notice, I didnât say anything about my own experience until after you assumed that I had not tried it myself - if I had come on initially stating how much I knew about it, that might have come across as arrogant; instead, I made a comment; you replied; I inquired further; then you made an assumption and it just degenerated from there, unfortunately;
are you being sarcastic? if not, it seems strange that you would feel the need to state this otherwiseâŚ[/QUOTE]
I know it wonât make a major difference because we all feel the way we are capable of feeling, so the best way is to let everyone do what they do at the level that they are capable of doing. After 15 years, whatever second nature we have became first nature, so that is also fine with me because that is the way it is.
[QUOTE=extrajoseph;999407]If you want a genuine discussion, why use a trick question? [/QUOTE]
LOL - thatâs your preconception, itâs you who decided it was a trick question - donât project your insecurity issues onto me! unless you can show me what about my question was a âtrickâ, I think you might want to reconsider that statement!
[QUOTE=extrajoseph;999407]Just tell us how you felt after doing it for 15 years with the two different ways, [/QUOTE]
in case you hadnât noticed, you never actually asked me about my experience; instead, you assumed I had none and then proceeded to âinstructâ me as to what I ought to do in order to feel something; instead of saying âI felt âxâ when I did it w/fingers touching and âyâ w/fingers apart; what is your experience?â, you were deliberately vague, and when I asked a follow up question, you shifted into your weirdness mode;
as far as my personal experience, when I do it w/fingers closed, I feel the counterbalance between the tips of the fingers of the outstretched arm and where the rear hand connects to Lung Source point; what is important about this is that you can make very subtle changes with the rear hand to change the dynamic tension throughout the entire circuit - if the fingers are open, the posture becomes relatively static and you loose the interplay between the two sides in terms of the neural and connective tissue tension, and as such the way the breath works in context of the move changes as well - you donât get the same âlightnessâ; also, itâs a transverse movement in general, but when you make that connection you get the vertical piece as well - making it a â+â of âsahp ji / fongâ sort of thing; of course, this is my personal experience, I donât intend to suggest it is the same way for others;
[QUOTE=extrajoseph;999407]instead of pretending you have just noticed the difference.[/QUOTE]
LOL, where did I âpretendâ anything? you really are a conspiracy-minded chap!
[QUOTE=extrajoseph;999407]You have already told me what I have done wrong, but you still have not tell us how you are doing it right and how you feel, so where is the genuine sharing?[/QUOTE]
you donât get it, do you? I did not presume to tell you anything until after you saw fit to instruct me on how I should do it;
as you see above, I have now âsharedâ in a âgenuineâ way; honestly, I would have done that in the first place if anyone asked, because despite what you may have been told, there are no âsecretsâ - meaning that I can explain in minute detail what I am doing, but so what? did I give away anything?
[QUOTE=extrajoseph;999407]It feels like an ambush to me.[/QUOTE]
again, thatâs your issue, not mine; if you really feel that you are being set up for an ambush, why bother to engage me at all? you could have just ignored my initial suggestion and avoided the âambushâ :rolleyes: completely; so if it felt like an ambush, then you were the one voluntarily walking into it!
I am not enjoying this âdiscussionâ and âsharingâ so I will stop and do some qigong instead. You can keep talking.