That’s a good question. Because if so, I have nothing to fear from WC.
I hate to sound like some macho ****-talker here, but if anybody came at me like that they would take a shot in the solarplexes that would instantly change their attitude and approach.
Fiamacho,
I see you know Sifu Dale Marsters from Auckland. I met him twice before, actually that last two times I went to Australia to GM Cheung’s summer camp. He is a great guy and very good fighter too. I still need to e-mail him, but have been super busy. It is always good to see him and get the chance to talk with him. But since I live in the USA and he lives in New Zealand, it is a bit difficult to meet up.
During the 2005 summer camp in Australia that GM held, Sifu Dale brought a bunch of students with him. Were you one of them?
I also study TWC and love the art. Happy to see you posting. I haven’t lately because of time and plus I like to read others comments as well.
Angelo
Yes . . . there is so much great wc fighters out there . . . we keep hearing about them . . . but no one seems to be able to catch them on video . . . it is alomost like the are ninja . . . lol!
So, was that a good demonstration of how WC is used in a fight?
It is a video of wc winning in a fight . . . that is the good news . . . the bad news is that the wc fighter’s opponent was terrible . . . so this is not much of a contest.
I am sorry but I hear on this forum many talk about training wc for fighting . . . and all the sparring they do . . . so I thought some of them might want to show bullshido people . . . instead of telling just us . . . but so far no one post anything on bullshido. I am guessing they have good reasons for this.
Thanks,
Ghost
As the Bible aptly puts it “Casting pearl to swine”, believe me Wing Chun like the Ninja are definitley out there, if you read the rubbish on that site it is like participating in worthless debate.
I personally have no time for that.
Yes I know Sifu Dale very well, he is a agood guy and no I did not go with him to Australia for the Summer Camp. When I found this site I also thought it was a mature place where unbiased and “unlineage” (if that is a word … ha ha ha ) opinions can be discussed on the nuances with the art.
I’m not sure if you’re near Columbia, MD or not but here’s a TWC school that teaches fighters.
http://www.templewingchun.com/
John-
In that clip, it looks to me like the WC guy did exactly the same things that the San Soo guy was criticized for doing against the MMA fighter. In the beginning of the fight, he approaches with his hands down, just as the San Soo guy did. There were also many instances where he was essentailly jumping up in the air. Seems to me the only difference was the MMA fighter never let the San Soo guy get anything off before he took him down while the karate guy didn’t know how to exploit any of the WC guy’s weaknesses.
wich guy is the san soo guy and wich guy is the karate guy??? Any way the guy that gets his but kicked just sucked so I’m not realy impresed by the other guy. If he is a WC guy he does finish the guy with an arm bar wich is a MMA tech not a WC tech. I’m not sure what this thread is about anyway, I’m only talking about teh vid.
Knife fighter where have you been the forum is boring with out you;)
I am thinking it is not casting pearl before swine . . . it is only presenting evidence to support claims . . . evidence will eliminate debate since it proves claim . . . funny that fighters from other arts do not feel that they must keep evidence secret . . . when ever I hear people say I have evidence . . . trust me . . . but I will not show any one . . . it makes me wonder.
Thanks,
Ghost
If it makes you wonder then you obviously have not been in the Martial Arts for too long at all. From my point of view it is all about history we used to hear this same b/s from the Thai Boxers and before that it was the Kick Boxers yawn etc… !!!
Now it is the turn of the grappling arts, whatever is popular, and at this stage grappling is definitely popular. Wing Chun like Boxing and Kick Boxing and Thai Boxing has been around for a very long time now, so there is no need for justification because if you haven’t noticed do you hear the Boxers making being grand claims, how about the Thai and Kick Boxers … exactly !!! They don’t.
So yes it is casting pearl to swine, pointless justification.
I’m not far from Columbia at all. I already have a school though. I’ll probably go check this place out though just to see what it’s all about.
Thanks for the link.
You think? I don’t.
In the beginning of the fight, he approaches with his hands down, just as the San Soo guy did.
Not so grasshopper. The San Soo guy NEVER got his hands up! The wing chun fighter may have had his hands down when he was across the ring, but he moved them up soon enough to be able to parry the karate fighters initial punch. Or as one instructor told me “When your out of range it really doesn’t matter how you’re standing”.
There were also many instances where he was essentailly jumping up in the air.
And your point? I’ve seen people effectively throw flying knees in K-1 and even scoring with “jump spinning back kicks”. His technique might have been unconventional, but it clearly worked.
Seems to me the only difference was the MMA fighter never let the San Soo guy get anything off before he took him down while the karate guy didn’t know how to exploit any of the WC guy’s weaknesses.
Seems to me that this particular San Soo guy just sucked and this particular WC guy just happened to be better than the karate guy he was facing. Just the “luck of the draw”. I’ve seen a karate fighter win in MMA against a “muay thai/bjj” fighters too. And I don’t think this particular San Soo fighter is a good representation of that art. San Shou guys like Cung Le and Marvin Perry would wipe the floor with him. (I’m assuming San Soo is just a different spelling of San Shou?)
http://marvinperry.org/
http://www.cungle.com/cungle/index.html
Anyway, whether you realize it or not, you’re doing the same thing that so many WC (and other TMA) people get accused of when watching such clips, namely using “armchair quarterbacking” to downplay the outcome. It’s easy to talk about “exploiting weaknesses” when you’re not the one that’s just eaten a mouthfull of leather glove. Maybe if you had been the one in the ring the outcome would have been different, maybe not.
Regards,
John M. Drake
The “san soo” guy? That was a clip in a different thread. In the clip I posted the “Wing Chun” guy is the guy in the black pants. And it’s funny that when the WC guy wins a fight everyone talks about how the other guy “just sucked” but when a WC (or a San Soo something that get’s mistakenly called a WC guy) loses badly he’s supposed to be given “kudos” for putting his butt on the line while simultaneously being an object lesson of why WC doesn’t work (even though he wasn’t doing WC).
Yes, he finished the fight with an armbar submission. But note that the fight was practically over long before that. The karate fighter was given a “standing count” prior to that, and directly before the armbar the WC fighter had “grounded and pounded” him. Going for the armbar was an act of mercy. 
Still, it’s funny that a muay thai fighter can use a submission in MMA and still be considered a muay thai fighter. Same goes for a kempo fighter (i.e. Chuck Liddel). But as soon as a WC fighter “borrows” a technique someone cries “foul”. Why is that?
Regards,
John M. Drake
Oh, I found this on a quick Google.
Just posting this in response to Knifefighters comment about the WC fighter “jumping in the air”. The WC fighter did a few “jumping straight punches”. While that’s not a technique I’m familair with, I don’t see how it would make you any less vunerable than a muay thai “jumping elbow”.
Regards,
John M. Drake
You’re very welocme. The school is run by Sifu Shannon Moore. In fact he’d opened a new school there. Sifu William Cheung, Keith Mazza, and myself will be there for his Grand Opening at 11:00AM on April 8th.
Phil
Common Sense
The Bullshido site is definitely not easy on Wing Chun…but I have to admit…much of it is justified.
Wing Chun is the victim of awesome marketing. It is marketed to the masses…and genreally speaking…the masses can’t fight. In order for schools to stay successful, they can’t be too tough to keep average Joe’s interested. Thus…the actual fighting training sucks.
Please don’t misunderstand me…I know Wing Chun produces some very good fighters…but your average Wing Chun guy (studying 2 years of Wing Chun) will get crushed by your average MMA-style fighter w/ the same experience. The reason is simple…you HAVE TO be an athlete to compete in MMA.
This isn’t a knock on the Wing Chun system…which I have found to be a very effective form of self-defense…but on the way Wing Chun has been marketed that ultimately fueled its success.
I hope that my opinion doesn’t offend anyone.
Regards.
… many MMA fighters don’t start out as athletes. MMA training turns people into athletes.
That’s the same for any “sport” . But to be a successful fighter doesn’t require athletic ability.
Phil
This if very true . . . lol . . . a sucker puncher . . . bully . . . and so on may fight and win but is not athlete. In my dictionary athlete is person who is trained or skilled in exercises sports or games requiring physical strength agility or stamina . . . training to be fighter is athletic endeavor . . . and such person is athlete . . . I can not think of single good fighter tody that is not atlete.
Thanks,
Ghost
Not to me. I pretty much liked the clip just fine!
He punched the other guy in the head plenty of times bringing the guy to his knees. It was just about a 10 punch combination to start with.
He kicked him a bit. Kneed him a bit. Mounted him. Punches from the mount that looked pretty painful. Armbar to finish.
If this was on the UFC, every drunk in the place would be cheering their butts off.