Ok, being serious this time..
I think Sanjuro is 100% correct.
This has always been my philosophy with combat: know (or analyze) how my opponent is going to fight, and use something that he’s going to be less skilled with.
Close range vs Long range (enter in their center and KO)
Long range vs close range (keep them away so they can’t do much)
Grappling/throwing vs close range or long range (destabilize them)
Ground vs standing (whole different ball game)
[QUOTE=Kymus;1236329]I think Sanjuro is 100% correct.
This has always been my philosophy with combat: know (or analyze) how my opponent is going to fight, and use something that he’s going to be less skilled with.
Close range vs Long range (enter in their center and KO)
Long range vs close range (keep them away so they can’t do much)
Grappling/throwing vs close range or long range (destabilize them)
Ground vs standing (whole different ball game)[/QUOTE]
You need Ameri-Do-Te!
I’m trying really hard to troll this thread but I’m running out of trash to talk.
hmmm
Here’s been my experience About wrestling… well I don’t do wrestling, but when grappling with a wrastler, 9 times out of 10 you can catch them with a triangle. It’s pretty much the go to sub to get them when they first begin to roll with a sub fighter like a judoka or bjjer. Usually they’re strong, and they’ll get the dominant position, but once you get them in guard, they try to pass and they’ll go one arm in one out - and bam - you get the triangle.
So there’s some $4 advice for the day.
[QUOTE=MightyB;1236344]You need Ameri-Do-Te![/QUOTE]
This suggestion was only for those that are not local to Master Ken’s school. It will give them bullsh!t to believe in until Master Ken sets up skype classes.
[QUOTE=Kymus;1236354]This suggestion was only for those that are not local to Master Ken’s school. It will give them bullsh!t to believe in until Master Ken sets up skype classes.[/QUOTE]
get them in guard, break their neck. Do you really need anything else? Besides MMA and BJJ are Bullsh!t.
on a side note.
You can really see the Judo and Ju Jitsu in this early Jiu Jitsu clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k1RurfbNu6g#at=99
Not really relevant to the current conversation, but I think it’s cool.
well I don’t do wrestling, but when grappling with a wrastler, 9 times out of 10 you can catch them with a triangle
I’ve always felt the guillotine is more prevalent for wrestlers that have no experience with submissions, if your going to your back that is.
I wonder how the old school hard core Karate guys in Japan deal with grappling being that they live in a Judo culture.
effective anti grappling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYwzg_WrZqM&feature=endscreen&NR=1
[QUOTE=MightyB;1236558]I wonder how the old school hard core Karate guys in Japan deal with grappling being that they live in a Judo culture.[/QUOTE]
Knifehand 
[QUOTE=MightyB;1236256]They aren’t good 'tis true. I yield.
[/QUOTE]
You both have points. Some exposure is better than no exposure even if poor quality as it can spark an interest.
However, you want quality instruction. And that was not. Pummeling and sprawling are such basic 101 movements in wrestling that if some noob is teaching it wrong you know they basically have zero to teach on the topic.
[QUOTE=Kymus;1238771]Knifehand ;)[/QUOTE]
Karate addresses ATTEMPTS at grappling, in other words, it’s defense involve countering attempts to grapple and NOT grappling itself.
Most old school karate guys cross trained in judo in some form or another.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1238785]Karate addresses ATTEMPTS at grappling, in other words, it’s defense involve countering attempts to grapple and NOT grappling itself.
Most old school karate guys cross trained in judo in some form or another.[/QUOTE]
this needs repeating and its not rocket science its the same with the guys in china who actually fought, when something new or different came along and they had to deal with they looked at ways of preventing it from happening, grip fighting movement etc and also trained in it to understand it, hence so many old time masters did some boxing, or judo
[QUOTE=Frost;1238800]this needs repeating and its not rocket science its the same with the guys in china who actually fought, when something new or different came along and they had to deal with they looked at ways of preventing it from happening, grip fighting movement etc and also trained in it to understand it, hence so many old time masters did some boxing, or judo[/QUOTE]
And then this circular argument starts.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1238785]Karate addresses ATTEMPTS at grappling, in other words, it’s defense involve countering attempts to grapple and NOT grappling itself.
Most old school karate guys cross trained in judo in some form or another.[/QUOTE]
What about Japanese Jujutsu?
This is the place to learn grappling!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83zgrsY7dKk
Ohhh Yeah! Sign me Up!
https://www.youtube.com/user/mmacandy?feature=watch
[QUOTE=Kymus;1238805]What about Japanese Jujutsu?[/QUOTE]
What about JJJ?
JJJ was preimarly focused on two elements:
Armoured grappling (Kumi Uchi)
Grappling in civilian attire VS an armed opponent.
JJJ systems were highly specific in that regards.
The Tenshin Shinyo-ryu was known for chokes and strikes, the Kito-ryu, throws, the Takenough ryu, grappling with small bladed, etc, etc
The ground work issue became prominent with the Fusen ryu and pre war Judo ( Kosen Judo).
Ground grappling was never a focus on most JJJ, outside of pins and such.
We need to remember that Traditional JJJ was designed for a specific purpose and that was VS a highly trained ARMED warrior, when it started to focus on civilan comabt, the armed element was still paramount, as was the view that multiple opponents was a very real factor.
The PROBLEM with JJJ is the over emphasize on Kata and the downplaying of randori, this is why that were beaten by Kano’s Judoka.
The Judoka, quite simply, had more experience in free fighting.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1238828]What about JJJ?
JJJ was preimarly focused on two elements:
Armoured grappling (Kumi Uchi)
Grappling in civilian attire VS an armed opponent.
JJJ systems were highly specific in that regards.
The Tenshin Shinyo-ryu was known for chokes and strikes, the Kito-ryu, throws, the Takenough ryu, grappling with small bladed, etc, etc
The ground work issue became prominent with the Fusen ryu and pre war Judo ( Kosen Judo).
Ground grappling was never a focus on most JJJ, outside of pins and such.
We need to remember that Traditional JJJ was designed for a specific purpose and that was VS a highly trained ARMED warrior, when it started to focus on civilan comabt, the armed element was still paramount, as was the view that multiple opponents was a very real factor.
The PROBLEM with JJJ is the over emphasize on Kata and the downplaying of randori, this is why that were beaten by Kano’s Judoka.
The Judoka, quite simply, had more experience in free fighting.[/QUOTE]
That’s very interesting, thank Sanjuro!