[QUOTE=Eric Olson;1044711]The phrase used in Hung Kuen is a body like “steel wrapped in cotton”…key word being cotton. [/QUOTE]
You are intentionally leaving out the steel aspect? Some Hung guys may play it harder, some softer. But I have never met ONE SINGLE Hung Kuen practitioner who was afraid of a little “bone-on-bone” action. Have you? In fact, most Hung Kuen guys seem to welcome it… with a lot of malicious intent.
My former Hung Kuen sifu was a big fan of fukcing you up by bashing your arms to death with his arms, because that route did the most damage, cut your defenses down and hurt you at the same time. Are you saying his method is incorrect?
It’s a pretty universal Chinese Martial Arts maxim, not specific to any style.
Then the burden of proof is on you to prove that is a “generic Chinese martial art maxim.” Furthermore you are using one SIMPLE statement to try and describe fighting, which is complex, chaotic, and violent (I already said this…). It is not so SIMPLE as merely “use soft to overcome hard, use hard to overcome soft.” These are all relativistic concepts; in a fight you must try to impose your strategy, your style, your strengths while minimizing your weaknesses. This is another “definition” behind this maxim. However you are interpreting it at FACE-VALUE. There is more than that.
Also, you ignored the other points I made regarding using your shin to check kicks, using your kicks to break down guards, to weaken the forearm and defenses. You were in Choy Lay Fut for a long time, surely you understand the underlying concept behind using a gwa chui or a sau chui to smash the guard of your opponent to FORCE the gate open? You may not like it, use it, or even disagree with how healthy the concept is… but would you really go so far as to say the concept and technique is WRONG or DOESN’T WORK? Because it clearly does.
Are you saying that checking a kick with your shin is WRONG? Tell that to the Thai boxers who have been checking kicks with shin-to-shin action for generations now.
In Muay Thai having a tough body is fundamental, because it is assumed you WILL be kicked, you WILL be punched, you WILL get kneed and elbowed. To always think that “soft will overcome hard, hard will overcome soft” is a fatal mistake. You can try, you may even succeed most of the time but… for those times when it DOES NOT WORK, you HAVE TO BE CONDITIONED TO TAKE THE BLOW AND CONTINUE THE ACTION.
What will you do if you can’t catch a kick coming at you? If you can’t grab the guy? If you’re slower than him? If you cannot move away and evade in time? Will you just LET THE GUY KICK YOU IN THE THIGH, OR THE BODY? Will you say “I’m going to use my soft muscles to block his shin because I don’t want my shin to get hurt as well?”
No, that’s a disaster waiting to happen. You check the god****ed kick, you swallow the pain, and you continue the action because you are currently fighting. Do I enjoy banging my fists and arms and shins against theirs? Sometimes I even get an elbow on my shin or foot due to them blocking and spiking it. It hurts A LOT. But I prepare myself for these things, they are bound to happen. Martial arts can only be truly practiced in a full-contact environment. You cannot expect to always prevail, to have everything go your way, but I’m sure you already know this.
Eric, I am not arguing with you regarding philosophy or what is healthy, good for longevity, good for health when you’re 90 years old, good for meditation, good for your psychology. Ii am only talking about the raw, gritty techniques in a real fight. **** happens, contact is made, and most of the time you CANNOT DO A THING ABOUT IT. Your opponent is trying to HURT you, and you are trying to do the same. There are techniques, which are high percentage, do damage, prevent damage being done to you, allow you to intercept/negate most of the damage (but still take some) and counterattack, etc. THESE are the things I am referring to.
Lots of styles believe in honing the body, or parts of the body to become deadly weapons. Southern Mantis and Bak mei vigorously conditions the Phoenix-Eye Fist. Buk Sing is obsessed with the Panther Fist. Muay Thai focuses on conditioning the shin, knees, and elbows. Most southern kung fu does A LOT of conditioning of the forearm through saam sing and other exercises. A lot of styles use neigong for IRON BODY and such, in order to WITHSTAND BLOWS.
Are you claiming that all of these methods are wrong for combat? They are inferior to your own methods or concepts derived from either your CLF training, your Taiji training, or any other training you have done or stopped doing? Because that is quite arrogant to say. We have not met in many years but in all seriousness and honesty how much new things have you learned since say, four years ago? Have you been sparring and fighting regularly? I used to be a fukcing noob but in the past three years have made a lot of progress, and have gotten my ass BEAT countless times to the point where I’m forced to look at fighting and martial arts as honestly as possible with as much humility as possible. I am competing, albeit I’m just an amateur, but when I have a guy in front of me trying to KNOCK ME THE FUKC OUT I am kinda forced to respond in favor, I have to hurt him first and harder than he can hurt me. But you seem to still be looking down at everyone else who does it “differently” than you yourself, this is not me talking sh1t but an honest opinion just from reading your posts. Of course, I know you better than that but four years is a long time and people can change quickly.
I’ve said my piece because you seem only interested in provoking argument or playing devil’s advocate for the sake of being devil’s advocate. Either that or you genuinely look down at everyone else’s methodologies. It’s late and I have nothing to do so this is everything I have to say. I’m not going to argue anymore; my thread has already been massively derailed thanks to all those involved. I will probably make a new one sometime.
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