Professional athletes and many amateur athletes train just as hard as fighters. This has been my argument. It is immaterial whether someone is a non-MA.
It is completely material! It’s like saying a track runner doesn’t have to run, because he can just do ballet. I’m not comparing Non-MA to MA, I’m comparing MA to MA.
If you say Professional athletes get fit without fighting one more time I’m going to have a fit! 
In this case you are defined by what you do, If your using MA as a vehicle to get whatever result, then what non-MA people do doesn’t matter. You are bound by the constraints of MA. They aren’t using MA you ARE.
If you want to use non-MA as an example then my point would be like this, If you want to become a better runner, you should train like an olympian.
If any athlete doesn’t’t train hard enough they risk losing.
A non-fighting MA risks nothing. MA and fighting = athlete and competition.
You’d be better off trying to make the argument that non-competition based athletes reach peak condition, so non-competition MA can too. At least that would make sense. 
While the fighting mentality is a competitive mentality, the competitive mentality is not necessarily a fighting mentality! Not all competitive activities involve the domination and injury of an opponent. While competitiveness can be considered the fight to win, it is different than “fighting to win”. The mind set is very different.
I disagree with your definitions. They are the same to me. Especially when talking about the training. And that’s what I’m talking about here. It’s the training that’s important. Whether or not you actually compete is immaterial as long as you are training with the same intent.
You can fight all you want but if you don’t put the effort in to the training your not going to get the results I’m talking about.
The competitive spirit is not necessarily the same as a fighting spirit. A fighting spirit seeks to dominate others
If you are talking about real street fighting then the fighting spirit is to survive, to overcome an imposed dominance. If you are talking about doing what ever it takes to defend your-self, that’s an application mentality not a training mentality, and doesn’t apply to sport fighting or self-defense training.
In sport fighting the spirit is no different then any other sport. I compete and I don’t even seek to win, let alone to hear the lamentations of their women.
It is absolutely possible to acquire peak conditioning and train with maximum intensity in the MA without fighting/competing.
I didn’t say it wasn’t possible, I just said it was a better vehicle to achieve your goals.
Not all skills are universal and actually some ring skills are detrimental, such as taking an opponent to the ground.
I never said, all. I’m talking timing your talking double legs, if you don’t see the difference I don’t have the time to explain it. I can only handle one discussion at a time.
It is not required to be in peak competitive fighting condition for most self-defense scenarios unless one is participating regularly in bar fights or soccer ruffian rumbles.
No it’s not necessary, but it helps. You can’t possibly argue that being in better physical condition doesn’t improve your chances of success. That has been my point, it’s not necessary to train like a fighter, you just get better results when you do.
Even in these scenarios peak conditioning, while a benefit, is not required.
See that’s what I said.
My argument has been they do not NEED to compete or have your required peak conditioning or fighting spirit to effectively protect themselves.
I never said they did. They would better off though.
How about: dying of cancer
Does MA cause cancer? Then WTF are you talking about. I’ve been talking about MA, and what happen in MA, and how MA can improve your abilities relative to MA. You continue to argue about how life is better than MA, but that’s not what I’m saying. I brought up character building because people put their kids in MA to learn character, should people give their kids cancer to learn character?
Fighting is child’s play next to life’s REAL challenges.
So, I’m talking about MA. I can’t argue that I’m older, you have the math on that one, way to go you win. AND I’m NOT going to have some ****ing contest to see who, life has kicked in the nuts harder, to try and prove my point here ABOUT MA.
I didn’t’t say they don’t train like fighters only that don’t train to compete in fighting.
I didn’t say that they had to fight, only that they should train like fighters, so we are in agreement here. Thank you for validation my point. I win
Seven Star
We have guys who have no desire to compete, but roll and spar just as hard as the others, for the simple fact that they enjoy it.
I don’t disagree with that, nor does that contradict anything I’ve said. They are training the same as the fighters, right?
lol, three days without sleep sounds like my typical week. thurs - sun I really have no time to sleep.
It’s just a wee bit more than that. Even so I didn’t think it was all that hard, still I was almost moved to tears at the end of it though. :rolleyes:
