I heard a friend of mine talk about his training in Bagua, and he said that he first learned 5 linear bagua techniques. Anybody have an idea what these are? Sounds hsing yi-like…
I think he said something about Tang Sou Dao (sounded like tang soo do to me)
Are there supposed to be 8 techniques perhaps?
5 linear tech’s definitely sounds Hsing I to me.
I’ve encountered applications forms in Bagua, but nothing in Bagua is in fives.
That would be awesome if this was in Tang Soo Do. I know they’ve started integrating qi gong practice into it, so I wouldn’t be surprised if someone in one of the organizations had the hubris to add some half-assed bagua tech’s.
taichi4eva-
You have me quite curious as to who is teaching your friend…
What your buddy is learning are the first five forms from the Tang Shou Tao Hsing-I system, as compiled by Hung I Hsiang (Hong Yixiang).
The names of the forms are:
Ba Bu Da (eight steps beat)
Ba Lien Sou (eight circular hand)
Ba Tang Chuan (eight china fist)
Ba Shou (eight hands)
Ba Shih (eight methods)
These forms are a literal blend of Chang Chen Feng’s (Zhang Junfeng) Hsing-I and Post Heaven Linear Pa Kua. Though the first three have a lot of southern Shaolin as well. Ba Shou gleans the relationship of the Hsing-I to Pa Kua, and Ba Shih introduces the five elements of Hsing-I. They were designed for beginners aiming to get good with BOTH Hsing-I and Pa Kua. Quite dandy. Though when taught correctly, actually take years to get down.
NO relation to Tang Soo Do, even though the words mean the same thing. Nationalist Koreans will forever live in the shadow of thier mother culture, rather than live up to it, unfortunately. But PLEASE do NOT confuse the two…
Tang Shou Tao was Hung I Hsiang’s label to his compilation of teachings. One of his more famous students, Hsu Hong Chi taught most of today’s exponents of the system. John Price, Mike Bingo, Dale Shigenaga, James McNeil, Tim Cartmell and Mike Patterson are the most well known students of Hsu Hong Chi in the US.
I learned a form called Ba Shou. I was wondering if we are talking about the same thing. It’s a straight line form, but my friend said that it’s actually a bagua form. I’ll try my best to describe the beginning movements.
As John said, this is Tang Shou Tao. In Gao Style baguazhang we also have eight lines of eight techniques. This is the 64 Houtian that John referred to.
We’re spending more time walking straight right now … and it’s Ba Gua. My master’s master, GrandMaster Wong Tsong-Fei, learned it from Kung Pao-Tien this way. Some people make fun, but I see them walking in circles but they are double weighted and there is no relationship between their hand and foot … they use no hip at all.
I think it’s more important to get these major principles plus the twisting then to copy walking in a circle and lack them, or to make sure everything is in eights.
My understanding is walking the circle is like a boat tacking, you don’t need it when the wind is at your back. Same with walking, you don’t need to flank out unless the other is more powerful and moves you … then you have the structure and foundation and twisting to maintain a pushing angle no matter the position.
Ray who cares about your understanding of Ba Gua Zhang or what you think or your teacher Daivd Bond chan think, Because you know nothing about Ba Guia Zhang training, or do you have any martial skill in this art to talk about anything about it on any level. Also your teacher don’t now anything about the Kung Pao-Tien system to be making any comments to form an opinion! What I find funny is he claims to teach it , yet don’t know any of the palms change of the system. People love fronting and living a lie, it’s no wonder you are the way you are.
BT
Keep talking. Build yourself up … when my master let’s me off the leash we’ll do business.
But to answer your question, maybe because I go out and use what I learn against strangers bigger than myself. You should try it. Instead of challenging coaches in their 40s and 50s, why not try someone challenging like Big Jim who’s 350+lbs… funny how you became friends with him quick fast. That would impress me more than web footage of you pushing your students around who aren’t really attacking you.
I have heard that the last form of the 5 linear bagua forms is a kicking form gleaned from techniques found in bagua. Can anyone describe this form to me?
Also, I’ve noticed on many websites that people that were taught the Tang Shou Dao curriculum were taught only the first four forms and the last one seems to be different for many. By this I mean that the last form could have been ba shi, or ba ti (eight kicks), or san guan quan (duel fist).
The reason I’m interested is that I recently read about linear bagua in a kung fu magazine. It seemed interesting in terms of combat applications. I wonder if they practice walking the circle too.
ba gua was made from xing yee thats why has those 5 straight forms.bagua was aslo made to beat it but you need to know both. the creator had a few different students from different styles who went to him thats why there so many different stlyes of it. some do alot kicks some do throws because one of the top students was sho jou guy.
I don’t think ba gua was made from xing I. You may want to do some more research on that.
Taichi4ever, (man that feels weird calling someone that…)
Anyways, please realize, the 5 Tang Shou Tao forms are a mixture of Ba Gua, Xing Yi and Shaolin techniques.
Linear Ba Gua is an entirely seperate thing. It is also taught within the Tang Shou Tao but please keep in mind the distinction. Quite a few Ba Gua schools contain linear forms alongside the circular ones.
-Jess O
PS lag2ma (feels even stupider calling someone THAT!) xing yi and ba gua are two seperate martial arts. Lots of people train both, but one does not come out of the other.
You have a few different histories/legends mixed together in your little story.
I have done this recently everyone makes mistakes. Now, if it is a teacher telling you this you better check his credentials.
my teacher
my teacher learned from go bai tan i am sure you heard of him
Nope…