Recently a video of Zhai Kui was posted on YouTube by Andrew Shinn, a student of Paul Sun (Philadelphia). I asked the poster if he knew where the version he learned came from. He responded that it came from Zhang Dekui through Shi Zhenzhong to Paul Sun.
[QUOTE=Tainan Mantis;1186437]Definetly influenced by WHF. Wang Songting’s form, I would think, does not follow these nameing conventions of regulated 5 character names.[/QUOTE]
Today Shihfu James Rodgers finished teaching me the Praying Mantis Kung Fu closed door form, Zhai Kui (Rip Off the Helmet) along with its open and hidden applications.
Shihfu Rodgers is a closed door disciple of Master Yang Xiaodong. Shihfu Yang was a disciple of Master Liu Yunchiao, the bodyguard of Chiang Kai-shek, who served as the President of the Republic of China.
It was fascinating listening to Shihfu Rogers as he told me about the early history of Taiwan and the exploits of Master Liu Yunchaio. Liu not only served as the bodyguard of Chiang Kai-shek, but also worked as an assassin under Chiang Kai-shek during their time in Mainland China.
Now begins the thousands of repetitions of the form to master it. :o
In 1990 or '91, Peng Shifu, my second Mantis teacher, took a group of us to the Wutan school in Jingmei and introduced us to Master Liu. Liu Yun-Chiao was his first teacher (Baji). Unfortunately, at that time his health was poor. Master Liu passed away in 1992.
You know, I’m no longer certain that Zhai Kuei is one of the forms I relearned from Peng Shifu. I remember him talking about it with me, but I had relearned so many sets from him, with varying degrees of differences from Gao’s sets. If I did, I did not retain much of an impression of it, and I cannot see myself as having been that lazy or careless about it. I now think I was mixing it up in my head with another set.
As for where Peng Shifu would have learned his 7-Star, I think it was through the Wu Tan school and other sources, but I never really asked him who in particular.
One set I only recently remembered relearning is Si Lu Beng Da. And I know why that one is hazy, because I never liked that set in either version.
[QUOTE=Jimbo;1187044]You know, I’m no longer certain that Zhai Kuei is one of the forms I relearned from Peng Shifu. I remember him talking about it with me, but I had relearned so many sets from him, with varying degrees of differences from Gao’s sets. If I did, I did not retain much of an impression of it, and I cannot see myself as having been that lazy or careless about it. I now think I was mixing it up in my head with another set.
As for where Peng Shifu would have learned his 7-Star, I think it was through the Wu Tan school and other sources, but I never really asked him who in particular.
One set I only recently remembered relearning is Si Lu Beng Da. And I know why that one is hazy, because I never liked that set in either version.
At the beginning of this thread we debated about the history of the form. Who created it? What lineage did it come from?
This morning I had the pleasant opportunity to sit down with Master Yang Xiaodong for about an hour and a half and discuss these questions.
Here is what I was told:
Who created the form has been lost in time.
The form came down through the Seven Star line of mantis.
It was Wang Songting who called the form, along with two other forms, Shuaishou Tanglangquan (Slapping Hands Mantis). He referred to the form as “slapping hands”, because of the opening movements of the form which should have a “slapping” feel.
It was popular in Taiwan and there are now several versions.
The name, “Take the Helmet”, comes from the neck breaking techniques found in the form.
Master Yang learned the form directly from Wang Songting.
The three forms taught by the Wutan that Wang Songting referred to as Shuaishou Tanglangquan are:
ch chuí - Insert Fist
zhi ku - Take the Helmet
táng láng shu - Praying Mantis Hand
The above Cha Chui is different from the Hong Kong Cha Chui form of the same name.
zhou shifu told me the form tanglang shou was created by liang jing chuan, the son of liang xue xiang. he said it has a similar flavour to chuan zhi of hao family
also, in our meihua lu is a movement called ba wang zhai kui - tyrant takes the helmet, which proceeds qin fa cuo zui ba - grab the hair and hit the mouth. are these the same moves that are in your form richard?
[QUOTE=xiao yao;1188062]zhou shifu told me the form tanglang shou was created by liang jing chuan, the son of liang xue xiang. he said it has a similar flavour to chuan zhi of hao family[/QUOTE]
Yes, that is the same history that I heard for the form. However, somehow it was adopted into the Seven Star family and taught in Taiwan by them.
[QUOTE=xiao yao;1188062]also, in our meihua lu is a movement called ba wang zhai kui - tyrant takes the helmet, which proceeds qin fa cuo zui ba - grab the hair and hit the mouth. are these the same moves that are in your form richard?[/QUOTE]
I know the movement you are talking about. But it is not the same movement in Zhai Kui. I will gladly show you the form and the particular movement when we hook up in Yantai.
