Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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[QUOTE=Jimbo;1302647]

  1. Of all the CMA, only Wing Chun was effective against other styles. Total bull****. The author is obviously a Bruce Lee/Ip Man worshipper. He either ignores or is unaware of the fact that CLF has stepped up and been proven effective in various formats, including against Muay Thai. Maybe not in MMA yet, but CLF fighters have put themselves out there for decades. But obviously, those who did trained to fight competitively with it.

Related to No. 2: Wing Chun can be used to easily beat up karate or TKD guys. Depends on the individuals. I’ve seen many examples to the contrary.

  1. Chinese parents are proud and happy for their kids to learn traditional kung fu (Wing Chun, etc.) but equate fighting sports like MMA with gangsterism. When I lived in Taiwan, many kids’ parents equated traditional kung fu with gangsterism, and preferred them to study Taekwondo, kendo, etc., considering the latter to be cleaner, more professional, and more wholesome.

[/QUOTE]

In mainland, any sort of combat sports or MA are considered for poor rural kids. TKD is about the only one parents would let their kids near. Theyd rather their kids learn English, Maths or Piano.

I dont get the whole attitude that Wing Chun is the only effective CMA. To me, northern styles like Mantis, Tongbei, Baji, Xinyi Liuhe, old Shaolin etc are much more aggressive and can easily be adapted to ring-fighting mor than WC.

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Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
I’ve long felt that having a solid background in non-CMA prior to taking up kung fu is a big advantage. The vast majority of kung fu people I’ve personally known who really excelled at actually fighting with kung fu against all types of opponents already had extensive experience in other arts/methods: judo, various styles of karate; boxing, kickboxing/MT, etc. There was already an extensive foundation of sparring or fighting in place.

Yup, what Jimbo wrote :slight_smile: I had come to the same conclusion. Whenever I heard stories of a Tai Chi guy who could fight, he also had HARD style training when he was younger. I.e. usually not just Tai Chi alone. It was sometimes met with opposition…dang Tai chi almightyists!!!

I have written on other forums in the past and others have said before me that: Tai Chi makes whatever or other art you do = Better.

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[QUOTE=Subitai;1302667]Yup, what Jimbo wrote :slight_smile: I had come to the same conclusion. Whenever I heard stories of a Tai Chi guy who could fight, he also had HARD style training when he was younger. I.e. usually not just Tai Chi alone. It was sometimes met with opposition…dang Tai chi almightyists!!!

I have written on other forums in the past and others have said before me that: Tai Chi makes whatever or other art you do = Better. [/QUOTE]

The only Taiji teacher Ive met who could fight, had a strong background in Sanda, Shuai Jiao, Chinese police MA and Xinyi Liuhe.

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[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1302662]I study and love kung fu like most of us here do, but sooner or later you got to call bull****. I don’t blame this MMA guy he didn’t go to the Tai chi guys school and challenge him. this tai chi guy was so delusional he actually thought he could fight without ever practicing fighting. I had a little incident yesterday. I have been at my Shifu’s school for over a year and a half. been doing this style for several years in my previous city, and doing martial arts for decades before that. so recently[last two months] my Shifu’s kung fu brother has been at the school and he brings along this young like 18 maybe 20 year old guy who severed in the Chinese military. his training is a bit in Sanda and qin na. seems his skills are at least decent. but not a whole lot of realistic experience. so recently the kung fu uncle has been getting more involved with teaching some different skills to my Shifu’s students. so yesterday during the pad hitting class, my Shifu’s kung fu brother is teaching some basic Sanda skills. the young guy is also walking around acting like a teacher and basically showing off to the younger students.

so at one point the young guy starts trying to teach me some basic punch I learned over 20 years ago. and last weekend he was trying to do some nonsense demo stuff with me. so the whole class is watching now and I lost it. I punched him in the jaw[lightly] while he was TEACHING me. he doesn’t. he doesn’t try blocking or move, lets out a kind of stunned laugh. he goes on continuing trying to teach me some basic move I learned before he was alive on this earth. and I do it again punch him on the jaw with my other hand. he didn’t even prepare for something[I would if this happened to me] so he just continues to run his mouth and I tap his groin with a front instep kick. through all this he never used footwork, tried blocking or defending himself. yet he is teaching me Sanda.

then my Shifu’s kung fu brother come up to me later when I’m doing a kicking combination, he starts off with no and shaking his head[here we go,im thinking] he is going to reteach me how to do a round house kick. something I learn thirty years ago. I just couldn’t do the whole let me be quiet and pretend I don’t know how to do this and let him be the MASTER. I told him in Chinese[I’m tired, I had knee surgery before, and I don’t want to give my body any problem].

The funny thing is at 46 and with reconstructive knee surgery, I still train everyday, about two hours. sometimes in the yard by myself sometimes with the kids. The Kung fu uncle and his young apprentice never train. I have never seen either of them train or sweat.[/QUOTE]

I actually dont mind all the fake mcdojo schools or the entertainment culture behind martial arts like if an old person gets attacked by a wild dog they are better off trying to find a broom stick staff lol then trying to attempt a bjj takedown. My bak mei school is in a popular city so all types of students have trained in it from Lion Dance students to people from other styles that are famous on youtube for sparring like Judo, BJJ and Muay Thai.

What is the 120 pound 18 year old with less skills than the 40 year old Heavyweight going to do in a kickbox match?. A good martial art would give you skills to improvise so give the lightweight a can of mace he now has a chance to escape the heavy attacks from the big guy. Give the Wing Chun guy his two swords and let the mma guy use his takedowns see what school wins.

I mean would you teach your grandma ground and pound or buy her a knife, I like that martial art has an entertainment culture that attracts all types of athletes and most may not be super american green berets lol but at least there is enough styles out there that the average joe may pick up enough skills and aggression with a weapon to not just get run over by crazy people.

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[QUOTE=shanghai-mantis;1302665]Xu has set this situation up so its a loss for Taiji whatever. The young Chen village guys train Sanda, which Xu is saying is not valid, as even if they win they arent using Taiji to fight him.[/quote]

lol They haven’t even fought yet… What a copout.

Wasn’t he saying particularly Tai Chi, but in fact the whole CMA world is full of fakers?

He’ll fight an obvious fraud, but then when real martial artists step up he looks for excuses to avoid facing them. Bit cowardly…

My hope is this whole thing will drag CMA out of the hole its dug itself into. Just yesterday was training in the park with Rendahai, and a guy in beautiful white silks turned up next to us, a crowd surrounded him with camera phones while he did some little tricks having people grab his write… all the while looking really smug and full of himself.

That’s funny! He was actually trying to show off or show you guys up?

Should’ve welcomed him to a little sparring session, unless he was like 60~70 something.

As Lei Lei discovered, getting punched in the face by someone really wanting to hurt you is very different to doing Push Hands in the park. What I think he should have done was stand his ground, cover his head and meet the force head on. That would have allowed them to go into close enough range for him to at least attempt his Push Hands stuff.

That’s assuming he had any practical experience using his Push Hands stuff.

It probably would have ended worse for him if he had done that.

Based on the dishonorable conduct Xu shows in this clip in front of a handful of buddies, kicking this weaker, inexperienced dude in the face when he’s already down, I could foresee in the very public match where he had something to prove, if they clashed it would have been clinch to takedown to actual arm break even if the guy tapped if he knew how.

The guy just comes off as a massive douche, but I agree, CMA needs to be “drug from the hole it’s dug itself into”. Unfortunately, this sort of thing will likely cause CMA to be abandoned even more, as people interested in actual fighting will jump on the MMA bandwagon as it gains steam in China, rather than training CMA in a more practical way.

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[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1302662]so at one point the young guy starts trying to teach me some basic punch I learned over 20 years ago. and last weekend he was trying to do some nonsense demo stuff with me. so the whole class is watching now and I lost it. I punched him in the jaw[lightly] while he was TEACHING me. he doesn’t. he doesn’t try blocking or move, lets out a kind of stunned laugh. he goes on continuing trying to teach me some basic move I learned before he was alive on this earth. and I do it again punch him on the jaw with my other hand. he didn’t even prepare for something[I would if this happened to me] so he just continues to run his mouth and I tap his groin with a front instep kick. through all this he never used footwork, tried blocking or defending himself. yet he is teaching me Sanda.[/QUOTE]

I dunno man, some times you need to acknowledge the difference between demo mode and fight mode. Why are you trying to fight a guy who’s explaining something?

Any smartass can say “well, I could just do this” or get in a free pop when something is being demoed.

Better, I think, to respectfully let them show their thing, then ask them to do it in real time with you being noncompliant. Otherwise, you just make yourself look…

27

@LFJ

I’m not saying I think Xu is particularly great or anything. But I am quite enjoying the storm he is kicking up now. Give it time, and someone decent will come and kick his ass. There are a lot of good guys over here, just they need a prod to step into the spotlight.

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Let’s suppose a properly fight-trained kung fu guy adapted his art enough to make it a part of his sport MMA fighting, and could clearly use it effectively in the ring. He still couldn’t win in the public opinion:

  1. The TCMA people would say he isn’t really using his art (whichever CMA style that is), because…“He does this; he doesn’t do that; his rear foot was up when he…his elbow was 2.5 inches too far to the left when he…”

  2. If he won, the MMA fans/pundits/internet experts would say, “This proves nothing. He didn’t beat a legitimate MMA fighter; he beat an old guy…he beat a newbie…etc.”

  3. However, if the CMA guy lost to the same fighter in the above example, the pundits would say, “Of course he lost; kung fu sucks. Told ya so. LMFAO.”

Just like many people were claiming that Lyoto Machida wasn’t using Shotokan karate in his fights; whereas, anyone with a brain who is at all familiar with Shotokan or similar karate styles could see that he did indeed adapt it very effectively into MMA as his core.

CMA as a whole (and that comprises a lot of different MAs) has become the collective whipping boy of MMA. Even though there are other MAs that, AFAIK, have never been successfully proven, or even attempted, in an MMA fight, at least in the West, such as FMA, Silat and Krav Maga. Yet those arts still have lots of respect from the public.

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[QUOTE=LFJ;1302671]I dunno man, some times you need to acknowledge the difference between demo mode and fight mode. Why are you trying to fight a guy who’s explaining something?

Any smartass can say “well, I could just do this” or get in a free pop when something is being demoed.

Better, I think, to respectfully let them show their thing, then ask them to do it in real time with you being noncompliant. Otherwise, you just make yourself look…[/QUOTE]

why because I have been at the school for a year and a half and he has been there maybe a month. because I am 46 and have done martial arts 30 years, he studied a little in the army. cause he is trying to teach me something I learned before he was born, cause no one asked him to try and teach me. so if he wants to play teacher with me well, prove it pal. prove what you are showing me works. its calling bull****.

if he is teaching sanda he should know how to fight. after I popped him once he should have been on guard, I popped him again and then again. I don’t need advice on how to fight from someone like that thanks. not to mention I am obviously his senior in that I have trained at the school for a year and a half and he is just been hanging around [not training] but doing little nonsense tricks and showing off and other nonsense. mans got to do what a mans got to do sorry pal. I can guess what comes next[well you have been doing martial arts for 30 years you should be more humble] ,or some other nonsense. yeah go into a thaiboxing gym in thialand ,or a judo school in japan and try playing this game with them and see how that goes. only in kung fu fantasy land does this garbage fly.

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[QUOTE=diego;1302669]I actually dont mind all the fake mcdojo schools or the entertainment culture behind martial arts like if an old person gets attacked by a wild dog they are better off trying to find a broom stick staff lol then trying to attempt a bjj takedown. My bak mei school is in a popular city so all types of students have trained in it from Lion Dance students to people from other styles that are famous on youtube for sparring like Judo, BJJ and Muay Thai.

What is the 120 pound 18 year old with less skills than the 40 year old Heavyweight going to do in a kickbox match?. A good martial art would give you skills to improvise so give the lightweight a can of mace he now has a chance to escape the heavy attacks from the big guy. Give the Wing Chun guy his two swords and let the mma guy use his takedowns see what school wins.

I mean would you teach your grandma ground and pound or buy her a knife, I like that martial art has an entertainment culture that attracts all types of athletes and most may not be super american green berets lol but at least there is enough styles out there that the average joe may pick up enough skills and aggression with a weapon to not just get run over by crazy people.[/QUOTE]

I’m not quite sure what you are tying to say here if you are referring to me as the 40 year old heavy weight, I’m about 170 pounds not a heavy weight and am 5 foot 9. that 18 years old is the same height maybe 20 pounds lighter, has youth on his side and was trained in the military, and is the one who choose to try and train his senior in drum roll please" kick boxing".[by senior I mean the guy who has been around at the school longer].he put himself in that situation. as for all the other stuff you are saying, it is not related to the topic.

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[QUOTE=shanghai-mantis;1302672]There are a lot of good guys over here, just they need a prod to step into the spotlight.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I’ve been happily surprised before. I’ll be glad to see that happen some day.

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[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1302674]why because I have been at the school for a year and a half and he has been there maybe a month. because I am 46 and have done martial arts 30 years, he studied a little in the army. cause he is trying to teach me something I learned before he was born, cause no one asked him to try and teach me. so if he wants to play teacher with me well, prove it pal. prove what you are showing me works. its calling bull****.[/quote]

So, ego tripped off by a young kid. Got it.

after I popped him once he should have been on guard, I popped him again and then again.

He shouldn’t need to be on guard while explaining something to fellow practitioners in a learning/sharing environment.

If you felt your ego was being challenged, why didn’t you just ask him to spar?

yeah go into a thaiboxing gym in thialand ,or a judo school in japan and try playing this game with them and see how that goes. only in kung fu fantasy land does this garbage fly.

I think most serious schools know the difference between demo mode and fight mode.

It proves nothing to tag someone during their demo and explanation of something.

If you really want the guy to prove something, or you want to prove something to him, just ask him to a proper spar.

Popping him during his little demo is just kind of a cheap, d!ck move to me, sorry.

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[QUOTE=LFJ;1302678]So, ego tripped off by a young kid. Got it.

He shouldn’t need to be on guard while explaining something to fellow practitioners in a learning/sharing environment.

If you felt your ego was being challenged, why didn’t you just ask him to spar?

I think most serious schools know the difference between demo mode and fight mode.

It proves nothing to tag someone during their demo and explanation of something.

If you really want the guy to prove something, or you want to prove something to him, just ask him to a proper spar.

Popping him during his little demo is just kind of a cheap, d!ck move to me, sorry.[/QUOTE]

bla bla bla

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More to come

Kung fu experts next in line for MMA fighter who whipped tai chi master in just 10 seconds
Tai chi exponents say they’ll take up the challenge issued by MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong
PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 02 May, 2017, 2:24pm
UPDATED : Tuesday, 02 May, 2017, 11:50pm


Zhuang Pinghui

At least three traditional martial arts masters have picked up the gauntlet thrown down by mixed martial arts (MMA) fighter Xu *Xiaodong, saying they were willing to face him in combat to defend their tactics and traditions.
But exponents of traditional martial arts said that even if the challengers lost in the ring against Xu, it would not mean their approach was inferior to the modern MMA way.
Xu, a trained kung fu free-combat sportsman who taught himself MMA, has claimed that traditional martial arts are outdated and only good for keeping in shape. In combat, free-style fighting or boxing was more practical, The Beijing News quoted him as saying on Monday.
Xu’s comments came after he took just 10 seconds to defeat tai chi master Wei Lei – who also calls himself Lei Lei – in a fight in Chengdu, Sichuan province, last week, reigniting debate over which approach is superior. Wei is a practitioner of the Yang style of tai chi, characterised by slow, steady movements.
Xu said on his microblog that he could take on two or three traditional martial artists and a number had already accepted.
Among Xu’s challengers were two tai chi masters Lu Xing and Wang Zhanhai; Guangzhou native Li Shangxian who specialises in the Shaolin Meihua Zhuang form of Chinese boxing, and Yi Long, a monk known for his martial arts prowess.

//youtu.be/9B-wxF-z6sc

WATCH: A tai chi master repels his opponents

continued next post

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Continued from previous post

Lu told the Chengdu Business News that he wanted to teach Xu a lesson.
“He is deeply biased against traditional martial arts and his words were insulting. I challenged him so he could have a fresh perspective of tai chi and the true traditional martial arts,” said Lu, who specialises in a form of tai chi known as tuishou, or pushing hands.
Why Chinese exercises such as tai chi are so good for patients’ all-round health
Lu said he was 80 per cent sure of winning because tai chi masters had “an iron fist, air foot and iron back, which took more than 20 years of hard training”.
Xu’s form of martial arts was more about projecting an explosive force, he said.
Wang, a Henan native who practises the Chen style of tai chi, said he decided to fight Xu to silence online dissenters.
The Chen style of tai chi is characterised by a “silk-reeling” movement that alternates fast and slow motions and bursts of power.

WATCH: The 10-second duel

//youtu.be/nUOXGQ0MqP0

Yi, the fighter monk, wrote on his microblog that he would not stand for the MMA fighter insulting traditional Chinese martial arts and “deceiving the public”.
Jiang Lugui, president of the Taohua Tai Chi Research Institute under the Sichuan Martial Arts Association, said tai chi had changed over time from a combat technique to a form of exercise.
“People practice martial arts not to kill but to cultivate a healthy body. Tai chi has largely developed into a competitive sport or exercise for health,” Jiang said.
“The practical nature of tai chi, to kill or overpower someone quickly, is no longer the reason people practise it.”
He said tai chi was now more of about showing technique and even some senior kung fu masters might not win a fight because they had stopped practising the combat element.
“Traditional martial arts called for long hours of practising some lethal moves to overpower an opponent quickly. But this is not appropriate in the modern era,” Jiang said.
Another tai chi master from the Beijing Martial Arts Association, said tai chi and mixed martial arts did not follow the same rules and exponents of the two should not go up against each other.

We know Yi Long. The plot thickens for That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About.

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Well, I hope whoever takes up the challenge from now on is young enough, has actual fighting experience, and comes actually prepared for a fight and not just push hands demos and playing hands with awed students. I can imagine a lot of Taiji masters who’ve never had any full-contact fighting experience, watching the fight video and thinking he would be an easy opponent to exploit with his forward momentum. I really hope they don’t fall into the trap of their own BS: “When he rushes me with punches like that, I’ll just use my ‘4 ounces to repel his thousand pounds’ attack.”

I’m hoping the next challenge will have a different outcome, but I’m not too optimistic.

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[QUOTE=Jimbo;1302699]Well, I hope whoever takes up the challenge from now on is young enough, has actual fighting experience, and comes actually prepared for a fight and not just push hands demos and playing hands with awed students. I can imagine a lot of Taiji masters who’ve never had any full-contact fighting experience, watching the fight video and thinking he would be an easy opponent to exploit with his forward momentum. I really hope they don’t fall into the trap of their own BS: “When he rushes me with punches like that, I’ll just use my ‘4 ounces to repel his thousand pounds’ attack.”

I’m hoping the next challenge will have a different outcome, but I’m not too optimistic.[/QUOTE]

Nah not gonna happen bro no ground game

I’m actually very excited. If Chen village gets humiliated then they prolly lower the 40k usd baishi fee. Now I will finally have chance to become Chen disciple #kungfubargainbin

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And of course…

If a TC fighter of any sorts is able to beat this MMA exponent, people will say that he was not a good representative of MMA to begin with.

39

I think it might not be too long until he is instructed to shut his mouth (or at least some kind of media blackout) once the public debate swings in a nationalistic direction. He is after all highlighting the inferiority of a Chinese cultural treasure against a distinctly foreign construct. If anyone does manage to beat him they will be hailed as a national hero.

40

[QUOTE=B.Tunks;1302704]I think it might not be too long until he is instructed to shut his mouth (or at least some kind of media blackout) once the public debate swings in a nationalistic direction. He is after all highlighting the inferiority of a Chinese cultural treasure against a distinctly foreign construct. If anyone does manage to beat him they will be hailed as a national hero.[/QUOTE]

He already is. CCTV covered it, and had a formal response the the CMAA who arent too happy about it.