Also, as has been pointed out, boxers also do “air” work to develop fluid movement in strke combos. Most styles do.
shadowboxing.
As an aside; we don’t consider training in the air to be a waste of time for numerous reasons, but the two I think you may be able to most identify with are:
I don’t see it as a waste of time but I do see hitting targets more viable than open air striking. You pointed out some reasoning and I agree that it does help with footwork and “honing” the over extended points that people tend to have when full out striking and missing.
When used in conjunction with resistance training it can be a good thing in “cleaning” up the striking and making for better balance when confronted with target striking. But as pointed out the Traditional communities tend to over work it instead of shifting the focus on actually striking a moving target and producing power.
I like shadowboxing, and working spontaneous combinations in the air, I think it builds flow.
That being said, I prefer to hit 3x as much as I prefer to shadowbox.
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1152265]I don’t see it as a waste of time but I do see hitting targets more viable than open air striking. You pointed out some reasoning and I agree that it does help with footwork and “honing” the over extended points that people tend to have when full out striking and missing.
When used in conjunction with resistance training it can be a good thing in “cleaning” up the striking and making for better balance when confronted with target striking. But as pointed out the Traditional communities tend to over work it instead of shifting the focus on actually striking a moving target and producing power.[/QUOTE]
Agree, DB. All things in balance.
It also depends on where a practitioner is in their respective “evolution” as at certain points in that evolution, the priorities of training need to shift.
Rank beginner’s, for example, often lack basic coordinative abilities. So having them hit things right away tends to encourage and ingrain already existing bad habits.
But for the more advanced practitioner, they can only really expect to “go to the next level” by hitting things as a predominant part of their training. Without that percussive feedback, you really just don’t know if your technique has any merit.
A little further on still, and now working with live opponent’s is the only way to truly develop a fluid responsive capability.
I don’t discount any aspect of overall training in favor of another. And it’s a pity some do exactly that. All in balance and all in their time.
It also depends on where a practitioner is in their respective “evolution” as at certain points in that evolution, the priorities of training need to shift.
Rank beginner’s, for example, often lack basic coordinative abilities. So having them hit things right away tends to encourage and ingrain already existing bad habits.
But for the more advanced practitioner, they can only really expect to “go to the next level” by hitting things as a predominant part of their training. Without that percussive feedback, you really just don’t know if your technique has any merit.
A little further on still, and now working with live opponent’s is the only way to truly develop a fluid responsive capability.
I don’t discount any aspect of overall training in favor of another. And it’s a pity some do exactly that. All in balance and all in their time.
agree, good post.
The second season of kung fu quest just started. The first episode “xing Yi” was hosted by my sihing Philip Ng(ving tsun) and aired in Hong Kong on Jan. 14. Someone has already posted it on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clgG8HkJELw
You can see alot of Ving Tsun vs. Xing Yi sparring in the show
Actually..
I see a more similarities rather than differences(part of this depends on which you choose to focus on).
If you look at the hand and arm movements of the 3 main internal arts..Xing-Yi tends to have more linear arm movements..certainly more than both Tai Chi and Ba Gua.
Think of a tire on the axle of a car. It’s spinning but it’s spinning forward vertically..not horizontally(Ba Gua) and it’s not like the electrons around an atom(tai chi).
I do prefer the Xing-Yi footwork over Wing Chuns though..I will admit that.
everyone has made some good points here but I don’t understand the arguing. Any of us who has trained in either or both styles obviously not only has trained it dif ways but dif lineages also. I myself have done sun style xing yi quan and leung ting wing chun. i’ve seen many similarities between the styles including the advancing steps and the turning. in xing yi sometimes you twist or coil the fist when you chamber it. xing yi tends to use the phoenix eye fist even in the low level training where at least with the wing chun i’ve done, the phoenix eye fist is only used in higher levels. the fighting stances at least to me are similar, as well as the use of rapid beng quans being similar somewhat to the chain punching in wing chun.
i dont think we are arguing…the only thing we disputed was the ignorance of ronblair…any centerline based art is gonna have similarities.. on the external side.
Hey guys, sorry if I didn’t respond to your post, but know that if I didn’t, it’s because I’m not even sure how to respond (because of my inexperience with the style of Xing Yi) and I’d rather not say anything than to say something dumb (though i will try to respond w/ something because I really appreciate your posts and while I may not talk about it on the forum, these posts give me a lot to think about) 
That said, I finally actually started cross training with someone who trains Xing Yi, and while I was excited, I noticed that he did things quite differently. Now, I guess the main flaw within my analysis in this sense is that I’m comparing an actual practitioner’s word against written reading research, but the person I train with does his san ti so that the back foot is straight and the front foot is at a ~45 degree angle. Now, I can feel the benefits of the stance, but I had always read that it was done the opposite way.
Now, I can understand that maybe I’m being told to do this as a primer, as it helps with stepping forward since the back foot is already pointing straight forward, but has anyone heard of a “san ti” with the back foot pointing straight ahead and the front foot at ~45 degrees?
note: as far as xingyi level goes, I’m a baby and all I know is a stepping concept so far as well as the most basic info on pi quan ^^
[QUOTE=Fa Xing;1152343]I like shadowboxing, and working spontaneous combinations in the air, I think it builds flow.
That being said, I prefer to hit 3x as much as I prefer to shadowbox.[/QUOTE]
same. I love my forms and air drills and such, but i look at those as ways to train when I’m alone and have no one to hold mitts/pads or train with me.
[QUOTE=RonBlair;1152245]This sounds exactly like boxing. Why waste time doing then in the air when you can just hit a bag or pads. There’s plenty of boxers with good power. Unfortunately there aren’t any current pro-fighters just utilizing hsing I. Might as well train boxing.
[/QUOTE]
well, looks like you’re banned now, which is probably for the better since this post is filled with all types of stupid :o
[QUOTE=doug maverick;1152240]depends on the school of xing yi, wang shu jin style is more like that, in terms of putting the weight on the front for a split second, but other styles use the half step way of walking which means its all back weighted. xing yi when trained correctly, uses combinations like boxing…so boxing you learn, cross, jab, reverse, separately then you do it in combos, same way with xing yi, you can do pi,beng,pao in combo etc. you have to adjust the movements. just like in boxing. the power of xing yi, comes from the small rotation of the ankle, knee, hip waste, shoulder elbow to the fist. and in some movements, even the wrist…like in tsuan chuan..[/QUOTE]
another great post. The most I can do is say “thank you” since I dont have much worthwhile information to add to the convo lol. Now that I’m slowly beginning to learn Xing Yi, I guess I’ll see which details my friends family sticks to. I had so many detail questions after my first session, but this post, in it’s own special way, told me to calm down and train what I’ve been told and slowly refine it. Yea, it’s a lesson I’ve already learned from training Ving Tsun, but I guess it’s easily forgotten when I step into learning another art
[QUOTE=RonBlair;1152112]Walking with your arms behind your back makes your body less integrated and is a bad practice in general. The swinging of your arms integrates your spine into movement.[/QUOTE]
Your body should push/pull your limbs and not the other way around. The day that you can train your sword moves without using a sword, you only see your body move, you don’t see your arms move, you will have good “Shenfa - body method”.