Originally posted by Liokault
Wushu is an atrocity cobled together by the chinese government to controle kung fu.
I also object to the modern “Wushu” practitioners hijacking ok the term “wushu”. it belongs to all of us and not to thease wannabe gymnasts.
Before you slam an art you clearly know absolutely nothing about, at least learn how to spell the inflamatory garbage you spew from you mouth.
Armed?
What the hell are you smoking?
Those guys use flimsy little tinfoil swords!
If they trained to be able to fight “armed”, they’d use real weapons.
Wushu is a joke. A communist joke.
I like communism but not what it’s done to the arts of China.
Maybe Wushu looks fancy but it really shouldn’t be considered a martial art. Sort of like saying tae bo is a martial art. They’ve taken the fitness side and exploiated it similar to the way Wushu has taken the northern forms and extracted only the flashy showmanship.
Wushu is no good.
(That is not my opinion but is merely the truth.)
It’s pretty and I can appreciate the great amount of work that goes into it, but I feel the same way about figure skating.
If it was a fight between an Olympic TKD fighter and a modern Wu shu fighter(?)/performer(?) my moneys on TKD guy.
Legendary_Fist…
Man, you’ve got to settle down.
Before you slam an art you clearly know absolutely nothing about, at least learn how to spell the inflamatory garbage you spew from you mouth.
This is a forum. In forums, people have have opinions that differ. You asked a question, and if someone doesn’t agree with you…so what? You talk about Wushu teaching control, and then show absolutely none when someone has a different point of view. If you don’t like it, find an “I love Wushu” board.
My opinion on Wushu? I only know what I’ve seen and like most sports it looks very flowery. I don’t doubt that there are some tough Wushu players out there, as there are in all MA’s. But the ones that we mostly see are the gymnastic competitors. Perhaps a few Wushu guys could band together and demo the Martial aspect of the art?
Just a thought.
Re: Legendary_Fist…
Originally posted by straight blast
Man, you’ve got to settle down.
This is a forum. In forums, people have have opinions that differ. You asked a question, and if someone doesn’t agree with you…so what? You talk about Wushu teaching control, and then show absolutely none when someone has a different point of view. If you don’t like it, find an “I love Wushu” board.
[b]There’s a difference between having an opinion, and just being an ass who ignores the points brought up by those knowledgeable in that which he criticizes, and sticks to his ignorant assumptions.
I understand that this is a forum, and within that forum, I expect people to have basic comprehension skills. I want to have an intelligent debate here, not a thread full of people’s uneducated opinions or assumptions. Liokalt was not showing an opposing point of view, he was flaming this thread with further unintelligent assumptions about an art he knows nothing about. Pointing out his lack of spelling skills was tame in comparison.[/b]
My opinion on Wushu? I only know what I’ve seen and like most sports it looks very flowery. I don’t doubt that there are some tough Wushu players out there, as there are in all MA’s. But the ones that we mostly see are the gymnastic competitors. Perhaps a few Wushu guys could band together and demo the Martial aspect of the art?
Just a thought.
[b]I could make a similar parrallel with Taijiquan. If I went by what I saw in tournaments, I’d consider Taijiquan a useless form of excercise because its form is far too slow. Such an opinion would be ignorant and incredibly shotsighted, and I’d be missing a valuable tool of excercise, cordination, and self defense.
However, since I study Taijiquan as part of my Wushu training, I know a lot better.
The same can be said for those who do not practice Wushu, yet feel the desire to degrade it by what they see on the floor of tournaments and competitions.[/b]
Originally posted by rogue
[B]It’s pretty and I can appreciate the great amount of work that goes into it, but I feel the same way about figure skating.
If it was a fight between an Olympic TKD fighter and a modern Wu shu fighter(?)/performer(?) my moneys on TKD guy. [/B]
This has to be one of the most idiotic posts I’ve seen thus far.
Originally posted by tri2bmt
[B]Armed?
What the hell are you smoking?
Those guys use flimsy little tinfoil swords!
If they trained to be able to fight “armed”, they’d use real weapons.
Wushu is a joke. A communist joke.
I like communism but not what it’s done to the arts of China.
Maybe Wushu looks fancy but it really shouldn’t be considered a martial art. Sort of like saying tae bo is a martial art. They’ve taken the fitness side and exploiated it similar to the way Wushu has taken the northern forms and extracted only the flashy showmanship.
Wushu is no good.
(That is not my opinion but is merely the truth.) [/B]
No, I take it back, this is the most idiotic post i’ve seen thus far.
Man, you have too much time on your hands.
Does it really matter what people think of wushu?
Fallacy of Wushu.
I hold the same view as Paul Lin and I think the word “roots” is the best pun and the achilles heel of Wushu. I posted the following on the CyberKwoon and I might as well posted it here:
" The assumption that Modern Wushu (Wushu for short) being drived from TCMA system; hence, it is by default a martial art is quite naive. There are many reason:
There is not concrete lineage. Where does the knowledge came from? Who is the “father” of the system? We all know that too many chefs will spoil the broth. So there is no originality and purtiy of knowledge and techniques to begining with.
Unlike Kung Fu, Wushu only has 4 pillars of martial fitness. Impact and Qigong are the most distingushed pillars of TCMA training but these are lacking in Wushu.
A sophisticated Kung Fu system has Ti (phsyical attributes), Yong (Metaphyiscal attributes), Gang (concises of the system), and Ling (summary in literature form. i.e. writen, characters, motto, couplet, etc..).. All these are expressed in the forms.
A Good traditional Kung Fu system has 2 types of forms - Quan (for fighting) and Jia (for conditioning). I highly doubt the Wushu coaches today would even know Jia exist and what they are and how they fit into the picture. I will be glad that someone prove me wrong on this.
Forms were/are logically put together in the prespectives of the pass masters of the style. There are many check mechanisms, one of which is partnered form, to ensure no tempering or liberal interpretations of the forms which are the intellectual properties of the ancestrial masters of the style. Anyone can interpret a move in any form with some descent applications but that doesn’t mean that person understand the system. What about the flow of the form? Why is the form constructed in such a way? What attribute or inner most feeling of the system are expressed through the form? Just finding application in some moves of the form is noway a proof of the ligitimacy of Wushu as an martial system. The question is how and why are the pieces come together.
To say that Wushu forms has martial application and was put together by a lot of “masters”; therefore, by default a martial arts system is totally disrespectful to the real contributions of the pass masters who have made martial arts into a study that’s is beyond the acadamic level. Certainly a martial sport such as Wushu should make it clear that it is but a sport and refrain from claiming combat effective so that it could pass off as a martial art as well. "
I strongly believe traditionalist are not ignorant people. They know what works and what doesn’t through hard work (even more so than the “ballet dancing” of Wushu). A gold medal gymlist is not going to beat a Mauy Thai figher PERIOD. I am sorry that you feel that those who dislike Wushu and can give reasons on why are but a bunch of idiots. We traditionalists speak up because we don’t want to be painted by the same bush as useless crap by others. Let the world know there is a hugh difference between Kung Fu and Wushu.
Mantis108
This has to be one of the most idiotic posts I’ve seen thus far.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, 
You just hang around a few weeks. You ‘aint seen nuthin’ dude. You may have seen some uninformed posts on this thread about Wushu, which until I read this, have only seen the flowery stuff, which I thought was pretty awesome stuff, just not martial. So, I too don’t know that much about it. But you have not seen anything close to idiotic on the scale this forum can generate.
BTW, take a chill pill. Quit reacting to these guys so much. If you can tell us how great Wushu is, from athletic to MA applications on the street, then keep it coming.
I study Xingyi. How many Xingyi guys have people seen? Probably next to none. So what? I will tell you all that is good about it, and I don’t care if these guys think it is a wuss MA because they have seen silk pajama dancers (Tai Chi) fools. Yeah, it is embarassing. Even I think they look like a bunch of friggin wimps. That is what people see. And that is exactly what you have to expect from public perception.
What do people know of Wushu? Deal with it man. You want to take up the Wushu torch and show us something we have not seen from the art? Step right up.
Originally posted by CD Lee
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh,
You just hang around a few weeks. You ‘aint seen nuthin’ dude. You may have seen some uninformed posts on this thread about Wushu, which until I read this, have only seen the flowery stuff, which I thought was pretty awesome stuff, just not martial. So, I too don’t know that much about it. But you have not seen anything close to idiotic on the scale this forum can generate.
BTW, take a chill pill. Quit reacting to these guys so much. If you can tell us how great Wushu is, from athletic to MA applications on the street, then keep it coming.
I study Xingyi. How many Xingyi guys have people seen? Probably next to none. So what? I will tell you all that is good about it, and I don’t care if these guys think it is a wuss MA because they have seen silk pajama dancers (Tai Chi) fools. Yeah, it is embarassing. Even I think they look like a bunch of friggin wimps. That is what people see. And that is exactly what you have to expect from public perception.
[b]First let me apologize if my tone was harsh. I’m currently dealing with the aftermath of a root canal, and am under some excruciating pain. So part of my snappiness is in relation to the amount of pain I’m in, and regrettably, I’m taking it out on this board. So once again, I apologize.
Secondly, Xingyi is one of the internal arts taught in my Wushu school, so I am familiar with it, though I have personally haven’t had the oppurtunity to practice it. So yes, I’ve seen quite a few people practicing Xingyi, and I think its excellent.
When I think of Xingyi, “wimpy” is the last thing that comes to my mind.[/b]
What do people know of Wushu? Deal with it man. You want to take up the Wushu torch and show us something we have not seen from the art? Step right up.
It’ll be my pleasure.
Darn, again I’m only first runner up for most idiotic post.
Note to self: watch more c-span senate commitee meeting to lower iq a bit further.
Legendary_Fist,
I’m telling you my opinion of what I’ve seen. The marketing that has been done about modern wu shu has given the impression that it’s like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, floppy weapons, demanding as he!! to learn, pretty costumes, great fun to watch, and many other things but not a real martial art. Step up to the plate and educate us unwashed.
First question, using modern wu shu what would you do against a double leg takedown?
Legendary Fist, don’t concern yourself with those novices who think your art is useless.
If you have made wushu effective for you, then it ISN’T useless and nobody can tell or show you otherwise.
There are people that SAY they have trained all their lives that CANNOT use their moves - and those are the ones here that trash your wushu.
The cutting edge of the true kung fu man isn’t the selection of the right traditional style to practice. It is the USAGE of the moves in whatever forum one intends it for.
Just because a style doesn’t have a “root” doesn’t mean it cannot become effective. As it stands, wushu has direct roots in their sets back to the traditional forms - albeit with great deviation.
Any true openminded kung fu man knows that to do a wushu set well requires a special type of qigong and impact all of its own. Try DOING a wushu set - it’ll require a special type of breath control and impact resistance that is very demanding in and of itself. I know from experience, having trained (and not truly having grasped) some incredibly difficult wushu stuff with sifu Jiang Jianye.
Wushu does have its own unique jing. Of the wushu I’ve seen, there’s almost like a tongbeiquan whipping jing going on. The force is generated through a whipping motion, placing a premium on speed and balance over brute force. Not everybody is talented enough to fully utilize this jing in doing sets or in combat (for example, ME).
As far as wushu routines go, they are very carefully scripted by guys who clearly know what they’re doing. A lot of buildup is required to master wushu sets, particularly those used in competitions. Simply jumping into a cartwheel split doesn’t cut it in a training regimen - one must work his way up to it. And the two-person partner sets I’ve seen are effective in their own right.
Wushu forms DO have martial application - it’s up to the individual to learn and utilize them. And it’s NOT an insult to past masters to use the lessons that THEY stuck into the wushu sets. If anything, it’s the highest form of HOMAGE to the efforts of past masters to take a lesson and then work it into one’s own image.
I’ll take gold medalist wushu master Li Lian Je (Jet Li) against any Muay Thai fighter in a true streetfight ANYDAY.
Originally posted by HuangKaiVun
[B]Legendary Fist, don’t concern yourself with those novices who think your art is useless.
If you have made wushu effective for you, then it ISN’T useless and nobody can tell or show you otherwise.
There are people that SAY they have trained all their lives that CANNOT use their moves - and those are the ones here that trash your wushu.
The cutting edge of the true kung fu man isn’t the selection of the right traditional style to practice. It is the USAGE of the moves in whatever forum one intends it for.
Just because a style doesn’t have a “root” doesn’t mean it cannot become effective. As it stands, wushu has direct roots in their sets back to the traditional forms - albeit with great deviation.
Any true openminded kung fu man knows that to do a wushu set well requires a special type of qigong and impact all of its own. Try DOING a wushu set - it’ll require a special type of breath control and impact resistance that is very demanding in and of itself. I know from experience, having trained (and not truly having grasped) some incredibly difficult wushu stuff with sifu Jiang Jianye.
Wushu does have its own unique jing. Of the wushu I’ve seen, there’s almost like a tongbeiquan whipping jing going on. The force is generated through a whipping motion, placing a premium on speed and balance over brute force. Not everybody is talented enough to fully utilize this jing in doing sets or in combat (for example, ME).
As far as wushu routines go, they are very carefully scripted by guys who clearly know what they’re doing. A lot of buildup is required to master wushu sets, particularly those used in competitions. Simply jumping into a cartwheel split doesn’t cut it in a training regimen - one must work his way up to it. And the two-person partner sets I’ve seen are effective in their own right.
Wushu forms DO have martial application - it’s up to the individual to learn and utilize them. And it’s NOT an insult to past masters to use the lessons that THEY stuck into the wushu sets. If anything, it’s the highest form of HOMAGE to the efforts of past masters to take a lesson and then work it into one’s own image.
I’ll take gold medalist wushu master Li Lian Je (Jet Li) against any Muay Thai fighter in a true streetfight ANYDAY. [/B]
[b]Thanks for the kind words Huang.
Excellent post too. [/b]
Some good points HKV, but when something is marketed as an Olympic sport(?) you have to expect the jibes about it’s marital roots. I mention that I take TKD and the jokes start flying though the art I study has little to do with the Olympic style, and when wu shu hits the Olympics the same will happen to “kung fu”. It’s the kiss of death as far as respect goes.
Just a thought maybe the way to stop the BJJ guys from picking on everyone is to give Brazil the Olympics.
Originally posted by rogue
First question, using modern wu shu what would you do against a double leg takedown? [/B]
Impossible to determine, because there are simply too many variables to consider.
what a cop out answer…you have no idea.
Wushu is dancing and acrobatics. Stop pretending that its fighting. Stop pretending that san shou has anything to do with your standard forms…its all an insult to real kung fu.
kung fu is William Wallace cutting through an army. Wushu is a couple of kids with plastic swords waving them back and forth and pretending to fight.
Wushu is like a slumber party pillow fight…right after the tea party for Mr. Cottontail. Its fantasy for people who can’t take a punch.
It ranks right up there with movie kung fu and American TKD.
Originally posted by Stacey
what a cop out answer…you have no idea.
Educate us than what the “mighty Stacey” would do.
Originally posted by Stacey
what a cop out answer…you have no idea.
[b]Of course I have no idea, with such an open-ended question its impossible to come up with a sufficient answer. My response would be dictated by the size of my opponent, my surroundings, how many people are around me, how many of his/her comrades are nearby, his/her skill level, what’s in my hands, what he/she is wearing, what I am wearing, the length of their hair, the intent of the attck, etc. etc. etc.
I can’t get any of that information from “What would X style do if someone goes for a double-leg takedown?”
I’m surprised more people don’t point out what an assinie question that is.[/b]
Stop pretending that wushu is fighting. Stop pretending that san shou has anything to do with your standard forms…
Stop pretending you have any idea of what you’re talking about.
Originally posted by HuangKaiVun
[B]Legendary Fist, don’t concern yourself with those novices who think your art is useless.
If you have made wushu effective for you, then it ISN’T useless and nobody can tell or show you otherwise.
There are people that SAY they have trained all their lives that CANNOT use their moves - and those are the ones here that trash your wushu.
[/B]
That statement is said without proof, you just have to visit us all to find out if we can use our arts. To say some thing like that is equivalent to a challenge to fight with all of us who are in traditional arts.
[B]
The cutting edge of the true kung fu man isn’t the selection of the right traditional style to practice. It is the USAGE of the moves in whatever forum one intends it for.
Just because a style doesn’t have a “root” doesn’t mean it cannot become effective. As it stands, wushu has direct roots in their sets back to the traditional forms - albeit with great deviation.
[/B]
I have seen the text books and tapes of how they learned Wushu in Chinese, as well as the compatations. It seems attempt to collect most major CMA and make it like a SuperMarket Center, for convienence, you can learn what ever you want and in as short time as possible. I don’t see that works. No traditional master will give all out just to have no face to see their kungfu ancestors in the past. They only give the general popular known stuffs. The true deeper arts are still in the traditional line.
[B]
Any true openminded kung fu man knows that to do a wushu set well requires a special type of qigong and impact all of its own. Try DOING a wushu set - it’ll require a special type of breath control and impact resistance that is very demanding in and of itself. I know from experience, having trained (and not truly having grasped) some incredibly difficult wushu stuff with sifu Jiang Jianye.
Wushu does have its own unique jing. Of the wushu I’ve seen, there’s almost like a tongbeiquan whipping jing going on. The force is generated through a whipping motion, placing a premium on speed and balance over brute force. Not everybody is talented enough to fully utilize this jing in doing sets or in combat (for example, ME).
[/B]
There is an example of needed for root. No root no higher level. I bet it is not your talent that hold you back, if you have a traditional way of learning, I think you can have that. Plus, it will take more than 10 years to have an earliest chance for deep parts of art in internal. In the traditional way, you are not just learning in class and intuctions. You must also pay attation to the master’s every day reacts to every thing happened around him/her. To have the true higher arts, one must look the way more than just one aspect–the learning aspect–the count less aspects in every day behavoir must also needed if you want to have higher arts.
[B]
As far as wushu routines go, they are very carefully scripted by guys who clearly know what they’re doing. A lot of buildup is required to master wushu sets, particularly those used in competitions. Simply jumping into a cartwheel split doesn’t cut it in a training regimen - one must work his way up to it. And the two-person partner sets I’ve seen are effective in their own right.
Wushu forms DO have martial application - it’s up to the individual to learn and utilize them. And it’s NOT an insult to past masters to use the lessons that THEY stuck into the wushu sets. If anything, it’s the highest form of HOMAGE to the efforts of past masters to take a lesson and then work it into one’s own image.
I’ll take gold medalist wushu master Li Lian Je (Jet Li) against any Muay Thai fighter in a true streetfight ANYDAY. [/B]
I really question about that, have anyone ever seen Li in a real fight? I have seen an interview with him a while ago, some movies workers jokingly hold his arms, and his response to that is totally not useful at all.