It didnt come out right,but he is on one foot with his legs crossed.
Can someone please explain what he thinks he is doing?Is it a normal thing to cross your own legs like that?And why?
[This message has been edited by dan downard (edited 09-11-2000).]
[This message has been edited by dan downard (edited 09-11-2000).]
No, I wouldn’t take any position in a streetfight, as there’s alot more to worry about.
I believe that these kind of odd stances came about because there are some important and very practical skills in kungfu which, if developed, offer the practitioner a certain amount of control and balance on one foot. So this kind of thing probably originated as a demonstration.
However, I’ve got to say, they’ve gotten a bit out of hand. Plus some people seem to be under the impression that you’d stand like that waiting for someone to come to you in a real fight. Which is… too bad.
Assuming this is a transition, and NOT a static stance, the crossed legs can be very deceptive. If the right leg in the photo is the one htat is up off the ground, it could be stepping back. That would move him away from his opponent. Or, he could rotate and throw a back kick. Or he could shoot out the right into a knife edge kick.
In short, footwork like that can make your opponent think you are retreating when you are really setting him up for attack.
As far as standing like that in a fight, it’s my greatest hope that someone would stand like that and try to fight me.
JWT
I recognize him, that’s madtsuda(sp?) paulie zink’s student. Why the partial picture? I can’t tell if he’s doing a crosssing step or a foot scoop. I’m 100% with JWT. And no jw, no self respecting monkey would just stand there like that. Then again, this is zink we’re talking about.
The whole picture can be found here: http://www.martialinfo.com/Who_is_Who/matsuda.htm
He’s doing a front foot scoop. Or at least he’s trying to. This is not a start up guard.
I have no idea what his hands are supposed to be doing. Just posing I guess.
[This message has been edited by SifuAbel (edited 09-11-2000).]
Yeah, I’ve been asked more than a few times about the crossed and twisted stances in kung fu a lot. When you realize that they are transitional and not static, the questions disappear. That’s probably the double-edge with trying to show off your art with just a photograph. Kung fu moves, a picture doesn’t, so you really just are left with trying to pose as cool as possible. Crouching all twisted and low, with snazzy silk clothes, tells the ignorant newbie “genuine kung fu!”
More pictures from the same site. Do monkey stylists really fight this way???
I was trying to find something on SifuAbles style of Kung Fu.He is right.Not too many people practice it.I only found a couple of sites.But I also found about 30 different styles of Kung Fu.Why so many?
I have a theory.Could it be that there are so many based on overlaping geogrophy?And thats why the styles overlap each other also?
Old masters took what they learned on their travels and put them together.So the way they were x-training was based on geogrophy.
Now we have planes and can go from country to country.And more and different kinds of x-training emerge.Sound reasonable?
Hey guys. Ok, obviously this is a subtle attempt to bash Monkey style or CMA’s in general. Whatever…
My question is for Sifu Abel or any other monkey practioner. I noticed that you were talking about Paulie Zink, do you have animosity towards him? I know NOTHING about Monkey style. I dont like it but that is because I dont like Monkees! 
I know it is a stupid bias but what can I tell you… I like Orangutangs and Lemurs. Maybe if thier was a LEMUR STYLE!!! 
The last time I regularly frequented this forum, you were talking in great depth about the Monkey styles. I did not read them much because I did not have the interest. I realize it is illogical to not like your style because I dont think monkees can fight well but I see my mistake in judgement clearly so I have another request. Would you give me a brief summary( A few sentances?) why Monkey styles are so effective in combat and also what is the weakness of monkey stles?
This is a legitimate question even if it seems like I am playing! I have had a few… celebrating my good fortune!
no. I’d be in a 50/50 stance with my hands up and be sportin some relaxed fists.
Paulie Zink is one scary looking dude. I wouldnÂ’t fight him unless he passed a blood test first.
ROTFLMAO!!!
I am trying to be simian friendly here! One thing I did think about is that a lot of Chinese styles exagerrate thier movements in a set to build power and then make them “shorter” in actual practice.
If they DO fight this low, they must have good lower body strength and coordination. I cant comment on the pic because I am trying to keep this positive. The post was funny though.
Sifu Abel, I would like a response as I am certainly mystified as to the practices of the Monkey stylists.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Arioch7:
One thing I did think about is that a lot of Chinese styles exagerrate thier movements in a set to build power and then make them “shorter” in actual practice. [/quote]
Absolutely right.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dan downard:
I have a theory.Could it be that there are so many based on overlaping geogrophy?And thats why the styles overlap each other also?
Old masters took what they learned on their travels and put them together.?[/quote]
you are right about some styles of kung fu being developed because of geography.for example, if the area was wet close-in hand fighting techniques were stressed,crowded cities such as SHANGHAI in southern CHINA saw the development of close-in seizing and grappling styles of which chin-na was the best known,if the location was flat and dry as in northern CHINA there was more room to fight and since northern chinese tended to be taller than southern, leg techniques were emphasized,in rocky and rugged regions low horse stances w/running,shifting and jumping over uneven terrain were learned;best demonstrated in monkey kung fu.
there are far more than 30 styles of kung fu alot came from differnt families and clans,many from observing animal techniques and applying them.the shaolin temples were where alot of them got their start either from the monks or people creating there own systems and presenting them to the monks.alot of people studied at the temple for a while and moved on incorporating what they learned at the temple in their own system which is why alot of styles have similarities.
i don’t claim to be a scholar on the matter but i have read alot on it and everything i’ve said here is true.if you’d like to know more on the history,styles and philosophy of KUNG FU check out the book “KUNG FU history,philosophy and technique” by david chow and richard spangler,it’s a very informative book i enjoyed.
i hope some of the things i said may have answered part of your question.
dan downward,
in case you are not joking, no you wouldn’t ‘square off’ with a guy in this posture.
my interpretation of the picture in your first post would be, hooking the leg, and trapping the arms, throwing the guy on his back.
the holding of this posture would be used for the development of the muscles, and balance; also to ingrain it into muscle memory.
are the postures exaggerated? yes, but, it’s the same principle as the baseball batter who practices swinging 3 bats during warmup.
ip chi,
i think what they are doing is the stylised “artistic” version. (martial “ART”)
i don’t think very many good monkey stylists would actually do that so exaggerated. (although paulie zink probably might! and he would be able to pull it off too!)
e.g. if you look at the pic you posted, what he is doing is in wing chun. he is locking the arm and kicking the knee.
-does he HAVE to be that low? of course not, but it is excellent development.
** anyone ever try to hit someone so low to the ground?
It is sad to me that you guys have had to defend your selves so much that you have become paranoid.I havnot bashed anyone or any style since I have been here.I do not appreciate the (obvious troll ) comment by Arioch7.I am asking questions with the purpose of finding out about something I know little about.If you have something to contribute than fine.If you are just wanting to continue the flame wars and crap than please do so with someone else.I havent even posted on those threads because I dont want to be involved in it.Arioch7 ,you said you didnt know much about Monkey style either.So why is it that when someone else asks about it,it becomes a (suptle way of trashing kung fu).SfiuAble is the one who practices it and I got civil answers from him.He was quite polite.Please try to do the same.
What can I say? I am sorry that I called you a troll.
–
[This message has been edited by Jaguar Wong (edited 09-12-2000).]
yeah, dan. Arioch was “lightly toasted” when he posted that. 
I’ve read your posts here and at Mousels (when they were still up), and I gotta say that you’re very open minded about the arts (that puts you in my cool book, but I’m not sure how big of a status symbol that is, though). I know you were actual asking a question, and not pokin’ fun at us “posers”.
Jaguar Wong
www.superaction.com
Dan,
You are right. If i’m asked in a serious tone, I will answer likewise. Many TCMA sifu do not like zink’s monkey. If sifu ross is around he’ll give his .02 centavos about it too.
IP,
No, that is exagerated and almost comical. I can see why people have a hard time understanding monkey styles when you have this as an example. I think zink is way too flexible. If you notice he’s got his leg behind the supporting leg instead of just sticking it out. many belive his monkey is fraudulent or at least water down for the “Lo Fan”. The Chan Sao Chun camp does not even recognize him as a legitimate player.
Monkey styles are, for the most part, Kung fu’s dirty fighter. Very unorthadox in the sense that it doesn’t square of to the opponenent directly. It’s main goal is to make the opponent overextend himself. Quick evasive moves are the monkey’s main defense. Low stance work takes a monkey out of a “standup” hitting range. Quick lockup’s to bring the opponent down to a vunerable position for yet more striking. Confusion and deception are key to monkey styles. Quick alternating levels, fighting low and high respectively. Not a submission style per se. Most grappling is done to further the striking range. Monkey makes use of opposing forces. Pulling to push, dropping to rise, lifting to drop. Techniques which cause to opponent to crash into the strikes thrown. A good monkey fighter always keeps his opponents guessing and moving in odd directions. Monkey as a style is very aggressive. If you get a chance to see Chan Sao Chun’s students, you will get an idea of what my monkey looks like.(sounds almost nasty)