Hi,
I saw a video about the Chan Wah Shun lineage of wing chun that had 16 forms of wing chun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G304i7ZnX4M
but did they change wing chun or did Ip Man Change wing chun?
thank you very much for the information.
kind regards,
kungfucasting
[QUOTE=KungfuCasting;1224859]Hi,
I saw a video about the Chan Wah Shun lineage of wing chun that had 16 forms of wing chun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G304i7ZnX4M
but did they change wing chun or did Ip Man Change wing chun?
thank you very much for the information.
kind regards,
kungfucasting[/QUOTE]
Everyone changed Wing Chun… Its a dynamic living evolving system.
Ip man wasn’t the heir of the school, so he wasn’t taught everything, and he simplified what he was taught influenced by his encounters.
[QUOTE=T_Ray;1224862]Everyone changed Wing Chun… Its a dynamic living evolving system.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=poulperadieux;1224875]Ip man wasn’t the heir of the school, so he wasn’t taught everything, and he simplified what he was taught influenced by his encounters.[/QUOTE]
thank you very much for the information
[QUOTE=poulperadieux;1224875]Ip man wasn’t the heir of the school, so he wasn’t taught everything, and he simplified what he was taught influenced by his encounters.[/QUOTE]
For what I know of Ip Man chun, particularly through Ip Chun, is that Wing Chun (I don’t mean all wing chun) developed in a decidedly ‘reductionist’ direction. A lot of the changes I have seen and experienced seem more focused on how to better teach the core ideas in the most efficient manner, hence why I think the trend has been towards reductionism of late.
[QUOTE=Paddington;1224916]For what I know of Ip Man chun, particularly through Ip Chun, is that Wing Chun (I don’t mean all wing chun) developed in a decidedly ‘reductionist’ direction. A lot of the changes I have seen and experienced seem more focused on how to better teach the core ideas in the most efficient manner, hence why I think the trend has been towards reductionism of late.[/QUOTE]
This “reductionism” may have been a trend in WC going back a good deal before Yip Man, perhaps as far back as Leung Jan or even earlier. It’s certainly consistent with the philosophy of this lineage. And, I find it a very appealing and practical philosophy.
Different lineages focused on different core elements and sometimes created forms to better address adaptations of core movements. Some lineages picked up forms from other systems and integrated them. Some lineages preserved their kung fu knowledge prior to learning Wing Chun.
We cannot say for certain that Yip Man didn’t learn everything. It may be that Chan Wah Shun’s heirs added in forms from other lineages, or styles.
What we can say for sure is that all Wing Chun is dynamic and evolving, even if the lineage focuses on differing aspects and techniques. What Grumblegeezer says is true, some lineages tend to reduce, rather than increase, which again hones their focus on the core techniques.
WingChunPedia has more info on Chan lineage Wing Chun:
http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.ChanFamily
Leung Jan tried to improve and change the system. Chan Wah’s students all seemingly have made changes and have different interpretations. Ip Man changed and adapted the system over time too.
WC/VT has continued to evolve and improve.
Some things still puzzling though… eg. Where did Ip Man learn the pole and the knives?
Not from Chan Wah Shun obviously, as he passed away shorly after Ip Man starting.
Yet Ng Chun So and Chan Yiu Min have different pole and knife forms to Ip Man?
Did Ip Man learn his pole and knives from Yuen Kay San? or from Dai Duk Lan?
Also Ip Chun and Ip Ching have different knife and pole forms? ( as well as differences in their hand forms) So! Who taught them?? 
[QUOTE=T_Ray;1224948]
Also Ip Chun and Ip Ching have different knife and pole forms? ( as well as differences in their hand forms) So! Who taught them?? [/QUOTE]
Actually there are very few differences / almost none in the hand forms between the two brothers. The minor variations that do exist are easy to explain through a combination of build, personality, age and the fact that it has been decades since Ip Man died (hence a prolonged period of self correction and development). I believe that you claim lineage through a WSL lineage, WSL openly modified the forms after Ip Man’s death and Ip Man himself was known to have taught the forms differently at different times of his life. Does it really come as such as surprise to you that after so long there are minor differences between Ip Man’s students?
As to the pole forms and knife forms again, across all of the direct students of Ip Man I see common concepts being displayed and common movements. Some have more, some have less but the core concepts are there in all of them.
Actually my lineage history (before finding WSLPBVT) is Ip Chun > Ip Ching.
I think you’ll find those ( like me) who have trained in both Ip Chun and Ip Ching’s Wing Chun/Ving Tsun will tell you they are significantly different! :eek:
The differences I have found between Ip Man’s students are nor minor!
The differences increase as you go through the system. BG, MYJ, pole and knives being often completely different… Not just altered sequences, but different techniques, and different methodology.
I can appreciate that, if Ip Man did actually teach his son’s directly, (is the any evidence he did?) there might be different emphasis in certain areas relating to build etc, but its as if they learned from different people.