What are some good training practices in terms of hard sparring that can be done to train wing chun?
I on occasion like to do focus pad training or proper sparring at all ranges (although this can get violent).
Any other ideas?
What do you mean by hard sparring?
UF:
There is numerous of sparing drills which wing chun students can practice. There is power drills, timing drills, and etc. Whatever help you make your wing chun work in real time, space, and distance will do.
Mr. Bao, what do you mean by power drills?
red,
I don’t know how to describe power drill with words but I will do my best. Duncan Leung and my teacher Alan Lee, we have certain exercises which we called power training, which usually means building up explosive strength.
For example, there is something which call “shock ups”, which is a plyometric push up that you shock yourself up and landing with your arm straight and pushing your shoulders out and your hands are in sun fist position; the pressure is on the last three knuckles. This requires powerful shoulder power, not so much with your chest. You always have to keep your core strong for this one. Usually, after this, we punch x ray paper for speed for about a min.
There is more, but here is one power training drill. I hope this answered your question.
Power Drills??
Mr. Bao,
From your post, I see you follow a different methodology of Wing Chun. The exercise you call “shock ups” may be detrimental to the health of your shoulder joints. They may not have any negative effect on you now, but what about the long term after-effects? The shoulder joint is fragile enough, constant impact to that joint is not good in my opinion. You should check with your physician.
Power drills creates and trains tension. Which contradicts the basic tenet of Wing Chun, which is relaxation in movement. It conditions the body to be in a constant state of tension. I spar on a regular basis, but I adhere to the principles of the system. Power generation is from the ground via rooting. Along with development of proper body mechanics.
Power drills may fall into the realm of boxing and karate. Just my opinion.
CH
Re: Wing Chun hard sparring ideas.
Originally posted by UltimateFighter
What are some good training practices in terms of hard sparring that can be done to train wing chun?
Wallbags and the heavy bag are meant to simulate hitting a human body hard. The dummy can also be used this way.
I on occasion like to do focus pad training or proper sparring at all ranges (although this can get violent).
I like thai pads and mitts as well. As for sparring getting violent, that’s a tautology at some level at least. You need protective gear to reduce injury risk, but at some time you have to expose yourself to hard contact for physiological and psycological tempering.
posted by chuk hung:
The exercise you call “shock ups” may be detrimental to the health of your shoulder joints.
Yeah, and doing too much walking hurts your feet.
Presumably Mr Bao’s teachers have been doing this for some time without detrimental effects, and they regard the practice as beneficial.
I’ve been told by various internet WC experts that my lineage’s version of the basic stance will result in major knee problems. I’ve been doing it for 13 years, my Sifu for 28, my Sigung for about 45. I’ve yet to come across any student with knee problems in which this is a contributing factor.
Suffice to say, “where’s your proof?”
It conditions the body to be in a constant state of tension.
I strongly doubt that the plyometric exercise described will have this result. Rather it teaches one recruit maximum tension in a short space of time.
Power training and the ability to relax do not have to be mutually exclusive.
CK,
Meet up with me and I will show you that doing shock up isn’t so bad as you describe. I think it isn’t so bad and have increase my punching power is much success from this exercise. I am not a big body builder type dude and this kind of power trainer doesn’t build up muscles like some exercises. By the way, Anerich has a point about exercises and the Ma.
You should check with your physician.
Don’t bother. No doctor in the US will tell you that this is safe. That’s OK though, because they are only ignorant doctors, and not martial arts experts. 
conditioning and heavy bag
do lots of conditioning (ie running, sprinting, weight lifting). practice footwork in all directions. with drills you wouldn’t really change them because your sparring should reflect your drilling. you should be able to do everything that you do in drills in hard sparring with practice. working the heavy bag is one of the best things you can do. it works well for conditioning, footwork, and power.
Re: Power Drills??
Originally posted by Chuk Hung
From your post, I see you follow a different methodology of Wing Chun. The exercise you call “shock ups” may be detrimental to the health of your shoulder joints. They may not have any negative effect on you now, but what about the long term after-effects? The shoulder joint is fragile enough, constant impact to that joint is not good in my opinion. You should check with your physician.
My orthopedic surgeon and physical therapists would have a cow if I did that. Bursitis is flaring up just thinking about it.
Shoulders and knees are fragile joints even for those without inherent problems, let alone the orthopedically challenged (like me).
Regards,
- Kathy Jo
Quote Chuk Hung:
Power drills creates and trains tension. Which contradicts the basic tenet of Wing Chun, which is relaxation in movement. It conditions the body to be in a constant state of tension.
–
Silly, silly, silly, silly-talk.
Quote Chuk Hung:
I spar on a regular basis, but I adhere to the principles of the system.
–
What does this mean?
Quote Chuk Hung:
Power drills may fall into the realm of boxing and karate. Just my opinion.
–
Odd.
Obviously, I agree with anerlich, I just wanted to flame.
UltimateFighter:
I cant really think of anything better for a MAist then hard sparring. Bloody noses, broken ribs, bruises, bleh, are all part of the game. The less padding the better.
Originally posted by yenhoi
I cant really think of anything better for a MAist then hard sparring. Bloody noses, broken ribs, bruises, bleh, are all part of the game. The less padding the better.
Yes, the most effective state to be in for fighting, self-defense, or continued practice is injured. :rolleyes:
We obviously live on different planets.
TTFN,
- kj
I didnt mean being injured was good, but one shouldent shy from sparring simply because there is a chance of being hurt. I rarely have more then a bruise or two from my weekly training, and I sparr regularly.
Originally posted by yenhoi
[B]I didnt mean being injured was good, but one shouldent shy from sparring simply because there is a chance of being hurt. I rarely have more then a bruise or two from my weekly training, and I sparr regularly.
[/B]
Thanks for clarifying. Perhaps our planets are in the same solar system.
Regards,
- kj
On being hurt and hard sparring:
Dit da jow.
1 sip will make you a WC master in seconds.
KJ,
It seems we are both on the same planet. I have read many of your postings within this forum, you are the voice of reason. I have been training in martial arts for a great length of time. There were periods of inactivity due to injuries from improper training. From that, and physical therapy, I learned the limitations of my body. Train smart, and you will continue training to a ripe old age.
As a side note, I agree with your interpretation of the Wing Chun system. It seems we follow a similar methodology. I have met people, and touched hands, who have trained with your sifu, Kenneth Chung. I would enjoy an opportunity to meet you if I am ever up in your area.
CH
Yenhoi,
I spar regularly, light to full contact. I do not shy away from it for fear of injury. Injuries are part of the game. That is not the issue of my posting. My primary inquiry was the danger of doing “shock ups” on the shoulder joint. It may work for others, but not for me.
The years I put in, and the injuries (tendinitis in my joints and rotator cuff are some of them) taught me how to train properly.
That was over five years ago, and I have not had any since that time.
CH
Re: Re: Wing Chun hard sparring ideas.
Originally posted by anerlich
[B]
Yeah, and doing too much walking hurts your feet.
Presumably Mr Bao’s teachers have been doing this for some time without detrimental effects, and they regard the practice as beneficial.
[/B]
Walking is natural for human beings. We do not do “shock ups” as part of our daily life. Unless you would like to try it.
Originally posted by anerlich
[B]
I’ve been told by various internet WC experts that my lineage’s version of the basic stance will result in major knee problems. I’ve been doing it for 13 years, my Sifu for 28, my Sigung for about 45. I’ve yet to come across any student with knee problems in which this is a contributing factor.
Suffice to say, “where’s your proof?”
[/B]
What does your version of the basic stance have to do with my initial inquiry? I do not know how you sit in your basic stance. I am not an internet WC expert. There is no right or wrong way.
Walking is natural for human beings. We do not do “shock ups” as part of our daily life.
There are plenty of things in WC we do not do as part of daily life. I do a number of plyometric and tendon strengthening drills as part of my training. No damage as yet.
What does your version of the basic stance have to do with my initial inquiry?
Iy wasn’t an inquiry, it was a statement of opinion that Mr Bao’s Sifu’s training was unhealthy.
My point was that some people (look in the mirror) take it upon themselves to tell other people what training practices are good or bad, whereas in truth as long as one is careful and keeps an eye on their goals,
There is no right or wrong way.
You have elucidated my point. Thank you.