What are the basic and most important principles in wing chun? What essentially is the foundation of the wingchun pyramid?
for the hands:
tan sau
fook sau
bong sau
for the legs:
yee gee kim yeung ma
In no particular order,
Using stillness to overcome movement
Achieving maximum efficiency with minimul effort
Receiving what comes, escorting what goes
There are others, of course. And FWIW, I believe the hands and body achieved the mechanics they did in order to better serve the principles.
General
- If the way is clear go forward
- If the way is blocked stick to what is blocking
- If the force is too great give way
- If the opponent retreats follow
Force specific principles
- Get rid of your own force
- Get rid of your opponents force
- Borrow your opponents force
- Add your force onto your opponents
reneritchie -
Using stillness to overcome movement Achieving maximum efficiency with minimul effort
Are these one and the same?
Receiving what comes, escorting what goes
I have heard this before, quite a bit actually, but could you explain what it means to you?
Wing Chun is a Woman’s Art?
The most basic principle of Wing Chun is that it is a “woman’s art.” We often say that in Wing Chun if a woman cannot do it, then it isn’t Wing Chun. Before you dismiss that, let me go on. If the intention of the inventors and practitioners of Wing Chun were to design an art for smaller (women) to overcome larger opponents, then what is necessary for that art?
Women have an innate ability to make finer (more precise) movements than men.
Women are more sensitive (not really, but this is the perception) and are more aware of their emotions (this last is true IMO).
Women are more natural athletes. To demonstrate this, look at little girls running: it’s smooth and natural. Look at little boys running; many of them are already modifying their natural style and running with their upper bodies held “tightly.” From this, we see why Wing Chun emphasizes lower body strength as a woman must (where women are equal to most men) over upper body strength (where men are usually stronger).
Just some random thoughts while I recover from the weekend.
Regards,
John, I wouldn’t dismiss what you are saying, I have heard this before. However, I find that at times some like to claim that it is an equalizer for smaller people and I think to some degree I have an issue with that, because I think that to a certain extant, size and strength always matter?
As for natural athletes, I think that runs to the individual and not the sex or the color. Some people are, some aren’t
Originally posted by reneritchie
[B]In no particular order,
Using stillness to overcome movement
Achieving maximum efficiency with minimul effort
Receiving what comes, escorting what goes
There are others, of course. And FWIW, I believe the hands and body achieved the mechanics they did in order to better serve the principles. [/B]
i agree that your 2nd and 3rd principles are suited to the hands and legs and that the hands and legs are what they are because of those principles.
i’m not too sure about “using stillness to overcome movement.” IME, all the hands allow you to keep moving forward to reach the goal (be it a strike/whatever). tan sau/fook sau/bong sau all allow you get closer, to stay on the inside where structure is the most powerful (the center, or centerline(s)).
this is part of receiving what comes, escorting what goes coupled with using the centerline. Since we operate down the center, we recieve whats there and redirect it with tan/fook/bong then continue on our merry way to the target through the center.
John,
I agree with your post, but usually think of the Foshan ancestor, elderly, slender, not too tall, and not in the best of health, still kicking butt with WCK as my inspiration (perhaps I’ve known too many tough women 
John I totally disagree with pretty much everything you say in your last post.
Women more natural athletes than men ? Totally baseless rubbish, sorry I dont mean to sound rude but that’s the only appropriate response for such a silly statement.
Women’s lower body strength a match for men ? Totally wrong, they are just as far behind their male counterparts in lower body strength as upper body.
Women have an innate ability to make finer (more precise) movements than men. What do you base this on ?
I am not a mysoginist or anything but male physical superiority is a reality. I would happily agree that some aspects of female behaviour make them well suited to wing chun. These are not based on them being better athletes or having disproportionately strong lower limbs:confused: , rather on their more natural softness and upper body flexibility.
Originally posted by KingMonkey
[B]John I totally disagree with pretty much everything you say in your last post.
Women more natural athletes than men ? Totally baseless rubbish, sorry I dont mean to sound rude but that’s the only appropriate response for such a silly statement.
[/B]
Let me rephrase. I didn’t mean that women include more “natural athletes,” but rather are more “natural” in athletic expression. They are less adapted to mental images of “how to run” and they just run. Again, I’m talking here about children, not adults: girls.
[B]
Women’s lower body strength a match for men ? Totally wrong, they are just as far behind their male counterparts in lower body strength as upper body.
[/B]
What are your sources for your statement? I have seen physical education studies that support my contention. Are you considering differences in body size? Does a small man of the same height and weight have a stronger lower body than a woman? And if it is true, don’t you think that even so, women on average are closer in lower body strength to men than they are in upper body strength?
[B]
Women have an innate ability to make finer (more precise) movements than men. What do you base this on ?
[/B]
I didn’t expect to be debating this point. :rolleyes: I’m sure I’ve seen studies that demonstrate this. I leave the research to doubters. 
[B]
I am not a mysoginist or anything
[/B]
Are you sure?
[B]
but male physical superiority is a reality.
[/B]
No argument on this from me. This doesn’t contradict my contentions. Nor should we lose sight that this is the true Wing Chun paradigm for men as well as women.
[B]
I would happily agree that some aspects of female behaviour make them well suited to wing chun. These are not based on them being better athletes or having disproportionately strong lower limbs:confused:
[/B]
I hope I have cleared up that misunderstanding over what I wrote. 
[B]
, rather on their more natural softness and upper body flexibility. [/B]
I like women too. 
But, like Hendrik, I do San Francisco style Wing Chun. (Just an inside joke.)
Regards,
regarding the male / female thing.
we’re all just individuals. the only difference i have ever seen is that women have less testosterone, which is essentially a chemical difference. everything else is attitude.
regarding the basic principles:
RELAX.
(as well as what has already been said i dont think anyone mentioned this.)
reneritchie - isnt another key principle simplicity??? what you said originally sounded really nice, but its a little too esoteric for most.
Receiving what comes, escorting what goes
could be interpreted in many ways such as:
getting hit, not getting hit
listening to teaching, forgeting what is useless
respecting new students, saying farewell to old students
care to simplify it???
Originally posted by foolinthedeck
regarding the male / female thing.
we’re all just individuals.
Not me. :rolleyes:
[B]
the only difference i have ever seen is that women have less testosterone, which is essentially a chemical difference. everything else is attitude.
[/B]
Viva la difference. I’m sorry you don’t see one. :rolleyes: But, as far as Wing Chun goes, women are equal to men in ability to learn, and in fact, may have a slight edge.
[B]
regarding the basic principles:
RELAX.
[/B]
Good. Being entirely relaxed throughout is key.
For me Wing Chun is like the way I look at life itself. It is about finding your path, then your journey on that path, and finally understanding your path. It sounds basic and simple when written and read, but once the journey begins then it is all up to you on how long and precious you make the journey. It is there that alot of people stop and walk no further. I know that alot of people will try tal about the physical aspect of wing chun but like I stated at the beginning (for me), and I feel the the physical is but an obstacle along that path to enlightenment.
Marti Mar
Re: Wing Chun basic principles
Originally posted by Grabula
What are the basic and most important principles in wing chun? What essentially is the foundation of the wingchun pyramid?
all movements should be practical, simple, direct, economical and without reliance on brute force.
Originally posted by foolinthedeck
regarding the male / female thing.
we’re all just individuals. the only difference i have ever seen is that women have less testosterone, which is essentially a chemical difference. everything else is attitude.
Beyond the ideas of being more relaxed and all that…
Don’t women have a different pelvic construct? And tend to sit their weight differently than men?
Bunsypoo,
Don’t women have a different pelvic construct?
Guess that makes me telling you to stay away from our MTL women rather redundant now, don’t it??? 8P
Originally posted by reneritchie
Bunsypoo,
Guess that makes me telling you to stay away from our MTL women rather redundant now, don’t it??? 8P
Hmm, well I have to say that it means about as much to me now, as it did when you first said it.
god bless Mtl women.
(moment of silence)…
Grabula,
The basic principles of the Wing Chun Kung Fu system are the centerline theory (shortest distance between two points is a straight line), facing (doy Ying), equal hands (hand unity), and hand replacement (always have something in the center).
Fighting attributes of the system include balance, coordination, sensitivity, timing and relaxation. Distance awareness is another attribute. Tan Sao, Bong Sao, and Fuk Sao are techniques, often referred to as the “three seeds of Wing Chun”.
Techniques are supported by the principles of the system and fighting attributes trained together. Each movement in Wing Chun is supported by the entire system.
If you use a real world example of a baseball hitter or golfer, how do they improve their performance? They already know that the technique is to “hit the ball”. It is by following and understanding the guidelines (the principles) of what they do and working consistently to improve attributes similar to those mentioned above.
Good luck in your Kung Fu!
How about “Take what comes” what do you people make of this saying?