Originally posted by TjD
does anyone have any thoughts on how adding the pole form to WC would have changed the effect the WC system had on its students?
I guess few of us would really know since the undermining of the pole’s importance has been fostered by most Wing Chun teachers for a number of decades. Undermining is not necessarily done verbally, it can be done by lack of action.
These are very true words.
etw
The heavy bag and focus pads are large targets which are not at all difficult to “master”. The pole takes your training and skill to a much higher level. Not a good idea to neglect it.
i agree if your going to have to fight with a pole
but i’m talking about the bare bones body mechnics , power release balance and intent . that transfer back into the empty hands .
it’s one of those things were you have to ask your self how much time am i going to put into a dead weapon to master it vs. what attributes do i gain from training that weapon that improve the empty hand .
this is why other training aids if your mwntal intent is focused on the specific attribute can give you the core skill in a more progressive and modern approach .
but first you have to understand what the pole is trying to teach you .
but once you have the feeling and idea .there is no need to spend time to master a pole , since you will never fight with one and the time you waste on it’s mastery could be better spent on things that directly improve your hand skills .
unless you just like the pole and wish to preserve history then by all means tap and poke away.
it’s in my nature to look for the idea behind something then try to find a more modern way to develop that skill
but i’m sick that way.
Originally posted by Ernie
it’s one of those things where you have to ask your self how much time am i going to put into a dead weapon to master it vs. what attributes do i gain from training that weapon that improve the empty hand .
A dead weapon that would make your Wing Chun more alive, especially your empty hands. Without the pole and knives/swords your hands will be limited.
but first you have to understand what the pole is trying to teach you.
First you have to train the pole full heartedly(without dreams of focus pad training) to understand what the pole is trying to teach you.
heheh pole training has helped me to use a broomstick,pool stick more effeciently
etw
point taken
but once you got it , yout got it no need to beat a dead horse and continue to do the same old thing when there are other area’s that you can use to expand and evolve the skill . the pole is very basic , it doesn’t take a life time to master ,
even now ive been doing it for years and sparring , drilling what ever .
i’ll go a few months woth out it and pick t back up and be better then i was before
but when i see guys in class spending all day on it month after month , yet they don’t get any better at anything else as they waste to much time on a dead weapon ‘’ unless of course you walk around with pool cues and broom stick’s all day ‘’
it’s better to break down what the pole gives you ‘’ structure , intent , focus ,and some theory ‘’ and apply that to a moving target that is fighting back .
not some other guy with a pole what are the chances you are going to get in a fight and both you and the other person are going to have poles compared to the chances were you both will be empty handed
i would rather focus my time on dealing with a live opponent
what you develop there far exceds what just working the pole over and over again will give you.
as for the knives i am a firm believer in any bladed weapon training , that to me is even more important then sparring since it highly develops the attributes you need in a street fight
but to each there own and what ever makes you happy or you find improves you there are many roads to the same place.
and etw to be honest my teacher gets on me all the time cus i rarely train the pole any more i even heard it today
so i will keep a open mind . ha…
Ernie, my apologies…
I keep forgetting that there a few significantly different standpoints from which we discuss Wing Chun.
The 2 major categories being:
- Discussing Wing Chun from the standpoint of constantly improving one’s Wing Chun in order to become a better martial artist.
- Discussing it from the standpoint of improving one’s streetfight abilities.
I’m #1. You seem to be #2. Therefore, discussing this with you was pointless for both of us.
etw
The 2 major categories being: 1. Discussing Wing Chun from the standpoint of constantly improving one’s Wing Chun in order to become a better martial artist.
2. Discussing it from the standpoint of improving one’s streetfight abilities
your right i am only interested at this point in my life in what is effective , as i am in my research and development stage for my own personal growth.
i understand you better now to see yoou are more into the ‘’ wing chun art’’ side of it .
perhaps many years from now after i have gained from all the experiences i subject myself to , i will mellow out and refine the artistic side but for now i am only interested in the combative side on a personal level , guess that makes me a little narrow minded and selfish . but we all have to be alittle crazy to do this stuff in the days when guns and lawyers have the final say…
The people who took the pole and developed it for the use of Wing Chun were geniuses. I cannot fathom the amount of time it must have taken to think it all out because the pole means so much to Wing Chun. And I’m not talking about the fighting aspect of the pole either (which is great). The pole training itself is a very important part of developing good fighting hands and the overall conditioning of the body specifically for Wing Chun. I think that anyone who has truly trained with it knows what I mean. And I’m not talking about doing the pole form and/or doing “sticky stick” exercises.
The pole IS Wing Chun.
Well put.