Phillip Kwok was a student of my sigung Grandmaster Wong Cheung. The iron ring,horse bench, chopsticks and bowl and the plumb blossom post in Shaolin Rescuers came from black tiger.
You see them all here in this scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0Lema7ab4o
jeff:)
Folklore and the 5 Deadly Venoms?
Was the film the 5 Deadly Venoms based on any tales in Chinese folklore?
it was inspired by the five venoms that poison the soul.
no it wasnt based on any folklore.
Just out of curiosity, what is it with Chinese and the number 5?
5 Deadly venoms
5 Shaolin Masters
5 fingers of death ( ok, that one is a little obvious 
)
5 animal styles
5 nookie cookies for…oh wait, that’s another thread…
My theory is that 5 in china is a lot like 40 in arabia. “40” just means a lot; For example: Ali Baba and the 40 theives. Rain for 40 days and 40 nights.
In that context, I think 5 just means “a few.” Like the Five elders myth…It just means a few people escaped.
I have no proof to back up this claim other than my rugged good looks and Davidian physique.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;897461]My theory is that 5 in china is a lot like 40 in arabia. “40” just means a lot; For example: Ali Baba and the 40 theives. Rain for 40 days and 40 nights.
In that context, I think 5 just means “a few.” Like the Five elders myth…It just means a few people escaped.
I have no proof to back up this claim other than my rugged good looks and Davidian physique.[/QUOTE]
hey, that’s go enough for me, Romo.
Early chinese thought divided a lot of things systemically into 5 varieties.
5 flavors (they were right about that!)
5 tones
5 senses
5 digits on each hand
5 protrusions from the torso on almost every vertebrate (snakes excepted).
So 5 is seen as being a complete number… at least that’s my take.
Don’t forget the 5 elements.
The Five Venoms: On the shoulders of a quiet giant.t
Greetings,
I know that there are people out there who love The Five Venoms. Well, it was not that original. There was a movie that was released in 1973 called “The Day of the Wolves.” It was about robbers who were instructed to wear masks so as to not now each others identity. They were known only by numbers. It starred the late Jan Murray and it was a really good movie for the time and it may have been the inspiration to the Five Venoms.
I know that there are people out there who would love to see a remake of The Five Venoms. Why not go to the source and create something better?
What is so interesting is that even though the periods are different, the movies dovetail with each other really well:
The Day of the Wolves = The Poison Clan
Five Venoms = Descendants of the Poison Clan
mickey
Hi, mickey.
I haven’t seen The Day of the Wolves yet, but you’ve piqued my interest. I would not be surprised at all if Five Deadly Venoms was inspired by it. Chang Cheh styled several of his earlier movies on Japanese samurai films and Westerns. The Savage Five (1974) was one obvious example, though it had more of a Western feel to it…possibly also inspired by Westerns like The Professionals (1966).
For myself, I like The Five Deadly Venoms, but I enjoyed many other films by the “Venoms Mob” better, such as Magnificent Ruffians, Kid With the Golden Arm, Shaolin Rescuers, etc.
I myself am NOT sold on a Venoms remake. Not saying it couldn’t be done, and done well. But what made the original Venoms films so fun was the cast, and esp. their chemistry and how they switched roles, displayed unique personalities/talents over several movies, etc. A movie BASED on the Five Venoms or its inspiration (if it had one, which it likely did), but not trying to copy the Venoms magic, might work very well financially. I could imagine a remake made today casting five young pop stars or wushu performers (if made in China) or (if made in the U.S.) they’d case guys akin to Taylor Lautner, Jake Gyllenhall, Channing Tatum, or (depending on how long it takes) Justin Bieber. Not exactly a recipe to recapture the original Venoms spirit.
Hi Jimbo,
I agree with you about the chemistry in the film. I do not think it could ever be re done as well.
That is why I suggested going to the possible inspiration to the movie. Doing so would free up the director from any obligation to copy Chang Cheh’s epic; yet, at the same time, giving the director the freedom to go absolutely wild with creativity.
By the way, the Day of the Wolves has a western feel to it. Yet, it would not work as a western, unless it was a futuristic type of western.
mickey
actually its 71 im pretty sure… dope flick tho…
ok i just checked… i found a few sources say 1971 and a few others say 1973
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Wolves
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069948/
i didnt read it all tho… maybe just a re-release… dunno, weird…
i think resevoir dogs was supposed to be somewhat based on day of the wolves…
Hi Syn7,
I remember reading that Reservoir Dogs was inspired by City On Fire. I remember hearing people say that they understood Reservoir Dogs better after watching City on Fire – it had better continuity – it helped them better understand why certain things were done in Reservoir Dogs.
Quentin Tarantino spent A LOT of time inn NYC Chinatown. I am surprised I never ran into him. And Reservoir Dogs was not the first film he was “inspired” by. I saw what gave rise to QT’s Pulp Fiction. It was a Hong Kong movie. The movie was out of sequence. The first scene had a long tail parrot partially wrapped in bandages uttering dialogue. A few scenes later we learn what happened to it. It was used like a sword to defend one of the characters. The film was so forgettable that I do not remember the title.
mickey
And as you’re probably aware, when Quentin Tarantino made Kill Bill 1, it’s obvious he based a LOT (most?) of it on Lady Snowblood (part 1). So much so that it’s virtually a remake. Except for the out-of-sequence style of filming that he so fell in love with. He didn’t try to hide it, either, because he even used Lady Snowblood’s theme song sung by the star, Meiko Kaji, at the end of KB1. I think he also paid tribute to the Venoms with the nicknaming of the killers.
Jimbo,
I did not make the connection with the names of the assassins in Kill Bill to The Five Venoms. I think you are spot on about that.
mickey
For our Austin members…
Posted on March 11, 2015 | Casey Warnick
RESTORED 35MM SCREENING OF FIVE DEADLY VENOMS WITH RZA IN ATTENDANCE!
WE’RE PARTNERING WITH CELESTIAL PICTURES AND EL REY NETWORK TO PRESENT A 35MM SCREENING OF FIVE DEADLY VENOMS WITH RZA IN ATTENDANCE
RESTORED 35MM SCREENING OF FIVE DEADLY VENOMS WITH RZA IN ATTENDANCE!
We’re excited to announce an exclusive, restored 35mm screening of Shaw Brothers seminal martial arts film FIVE DEADLY VENOMS. Presented in conjunction with Celestial Pictures and El Rey Network, the screening includes the legendary record producer, director, actor and screenwriter, RZA, in conversation with our founder and CEO, Tim League, as they discuss the film and the Shaw Brothers immeasurable impact on contemporary cinema and music.
Its always a privilege to sit with RZA, but to talk about the mythic Shaw Brothers studio is the stuff of legend, said Alamo Drafthouse Founder & CEO Tim League. Their work changed martial arts cinema forever, but their effect on hip hop is also profound. Theres no one better than RZA with whom to discuss this.
FIVE DEADLY VENOMS follows Yang Tieh, the last student of the Poison Clan, on his epic quest find the five most mysterious and dangerous disciples of the clan the Centipede, the Scorpion, the Lizard, the Snake, and the Toad each trained in a different fighting style, and bring them together to root out a conspiracy that could divide and destroy the entire clan. Incredible kung fu choreography and vibrantly vital filmmaking culminate in a climactic five-way battle that has yet to be topped. FIVE DEADLY VENOMS launched a generation of kung fu acolytes and was listed at number 11 on Entertainment Weekly’s Top 50 Cult Films list and continues to be referenced in pop culture today.
El Rey Network, maverick filmmaker Robert Rodriguez’s genre-busting cable network, is the American home for the Shaw Brothers collection. The network airs the iconic martial arts films throughout the week and during the Thursday night Kung Fu marathons Flying Five Finger One Armed Eight Pole Shaolin Exploding Death Touch Thursdays.
FIVE DEADLY VENOMS screens Monday, March 16th at South Lamar. Grab tickets here.
About Celestial Pictures Limited: CELESTIAL PICTURES LIMITED (Celestial Pictures) is a diversified entertainment company bringing the best in Asian entertainment to the world. The company focuses on film and television content origination, aggregation and worldwide distribution. Celestial Pictures owns the Shaw Brothers library, the world’s largest Chinese film collection, with over 760 feature films originally released over a fifty year period. The library has inspired countless filmmakers with its vast pool of classics including THE FIVE VENOMS, HEX, THE 36TH CHAMBER OF SHAOLIN, ONE-ARMED SWORDSMAN, KING BOXER and THE FLYING GUILLOTINE. These award-winning films have been digitally restored frame-by-frame for global distribution. The company has also been active in producing new film content, both originals and remakes based on the Shaw Brothers library films. Recent releases include PERHAPS LOVE, MY KINGDOM and CONTROL.
For more:
I was like 3 when I was up past midnight with my older brother and saw a trailer for Enter The Dragon. I said, I want to be him! Well, that did not happen. Later in life the first Kung Fu movie I ever saw I was again staying up late. Back when Cinemax showed all ultra violent or sex films during the 2-6am block. I saw 5 Fingers of Death. Loved it. I had to stay up late to watch MadMax too…
And then this happened…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6Zd8A_d7TA
5 Deadly Venoms was better than most.
Another from Sascha
The Five Venoms: A Morality Tale for the Ages
Fightland Blog
By Sascha Matuszak
The Shaw Brothers 1978 film, Five Deadly Venoms, was and still is one of the most popular and influential martial arts flics to come out of Hong Kong. The story contains many archetypical story lines and characters: the spy masquerading as bumpkin, the corrupt official and his wealthy private counterpart (in this case also the Snake), and the struggle between righteous kung fu warriors and their twisted brethren, the wushu criminals.
The plot involves a dying master tasking his final disciple, Yang De, with finding the five other disciples, Centipede, Snake, Scorpion, Lizard, and Toad. There is a great, ill-gotten treasure in play, and the old master wants to make sure the righteous among his students gain the treasure. The master speaks of his Five Venom’s dojo with regret, and promises to close up shop after the treasure has been recovered and donated to charity. Too many of his disciples have “taken to the rivers and lakes” and become criminals, rejecting the moral code of the marital artist and instead using their considerable power to dominate and exploit the masses.
“Our House is a well-known threat in the martial arts world,” the master tells Yang De. “If you speak the name of our house in the rivers and lakes, you will be in great danger.”
The concept of the rivers and lakes is very interesting to me. This realm is a separate space from the court and the daily lives of the common people. The rivers and lakes are the colorful spaces within which good and evil fight it out. The court and the emperor step in when they have to, but the rulers can also succumb to the righteousness of the rivers and lakes if the court has lost the Mandate of Heaven through corrupt acts. The people are both the wards and victims of the rivers and lakes, depending. In a very ordered society like China’s—especially Song dynasty China, the period in which this movie takes place—only the rivers and lakes provide wiggle room.
All five of the master’s disciples have left the dojo for the rivers and lakes, but only two have kept to the code. The other three are in effect rogue agents disturbing the celestial order of things.
No Escape from the Corrupt Official
The theme of righteous men versus the corrupt and greedy plays throughout the film. There is one exchange in particular which outlines the very ancient and unfortunately very abiding belief in corruption as an inescapable fact of life. The exchange happens when the Snake invited the highest official in the county over to his house. At first he just hands over 5,000 taels of silver, which is a huge amount of money, with some studies suggesting that one tael of silver (roughly 35-40 grams) in the Song dynasty worth about $700 in modern currency. Faced with that much money, the official demurs, but then the Snake let’s loose with this little couplet:
Which I would translate as:
“Far and wide, anyone beseeching an official does it for wealth; we all just meet in this open space to play games.”
I find this to be one of the most thought-out lines in the entire movie. Although the language is definitely High Mandarin, and modeled after what old imperial China may have sounded like, these are two of the few lines of poetry in the movie. When taken with all of the rampant bribery in the film, the message seems pretty clear:
The world is filled with cowardly, unscrupulous men and all anyone seeks is wealth and power. Only a small minority, the righteous few, struggle for what is right and true. And the lesson at the end is, of course, that the determined few can overcome the many evils in the world. Had the Communist Party been the righteous few at this time, perhaps this film would have been the debut of the kung fu flic in Mainland China, but alas they had already become the corrupt officials China is so famous for, and so The Shaolin Temple and it’s less biting critique of authority was the film to bring Hong Kong kung fu to the Mainland audience.
The Fool
There are also a few characters in the film who are found throughout Chinese stories. The first two I already mentioned, the corrupt official and the wealthy businessman. But there is also the bumbling fool who in fact is aware of everything, and in his own way moves the entire story along. Yuan De plays the fool for most of the film, but it’s all an act. His accent in the film is actually typical for the “fool who knows more than he should” - he sounds childish and his pronunciation is exaggerated and almost feminine. In Chinese lore, this is the sound of the fool. The way he eats his buns, the dirt on his face, his unkempt hair, the uncouth way he treats others and is treated in return … all these are the common tropes and acts of the clown in Chinese storytelling.
But notice that he “trips” into the Centipede at exactly the right moment, enabling the Toad to capture him and bring the violent murderer in. He is always where he needs to be, listening to what he needs to hear, and doing his master’s bidding at all times. The soft in this case, overcomes the hard. Alone and brash, he would have ended up with a broken body and a mouth full of Shaw Brothers fake blood. But as the overlooked bum, he manages to get his way.
Still Relevant
The Five Deadly Venoms is one of the Shaw Brothers most popular films. It as recently restored on 35mm and shown at the Drafthouse theater, where the RZA dropped name after name and let the whole audience know how much this movie meant to him, and how much of a movie buff he really is. RZA, like other NYC natives from back in the day, spent a lot of time in the theaters watching these flics and dreaming up a different life than the one he was leading at the time. The entire cast of The Black Dragons documentary also mentioned this movie was a primary influence.
The struggle of Yuan De and his kung fu brothers, the Toad and the Lizard, to fulfill their master’s wishes and restore the name of the Five Venoms House, bring about at last one final righteous act, and derail the evil the House had unleashed resonated with people living in 1970s America, especially if you were broke and downtrodden, but it shouldn’t just make waves with the old school cats. Nothing much has changed. Even now, as the Snake balefully intoned,
“… anyone beseeching an official does it for wealth … "
More from Sascha here (he’s a member here).
Probably my favorite guilty (kung fu movie) pleasure.