The first evidence of MA practice in Shaolin was not from Damo, according to Shaolin.
Batuo’s two disciples practiced.
Wow…Bodhidruci’s disples practiced the arts? Now, that’s interesting…is it known what they called the art they practiced?
DRleungjan 
it all came from when the first caveman first hit another one.
I’m not aware of any mention of specific styles, but only anecdotal records such as teacher Chou could leap over a man, lift heavy weights, strike quickly and fiercely, keep a shuttle**** aloft around the rim of a well, take care of dangerous animals- that kind of stuff. I think most of this is from Biographies of Imminent Monks. I’m a little hazy on the details but can try and find my notes.
I know that in our family the tradition holds that there were 5 martial forebears who are held to be important above and beyond- Bato’s two disciples Seng Chou and Hui Guang are said to be the first to practice martial arts within the temple, then Hui Ke and Damo, and of course Fu Yu.
Thanks alot richard,
Anything you can come up with will be appreciated.
DRleungjan
Alright, I asked him for a confirmation. I misunderstood him but not completely. He says it was Tamo himself who brought the 18 excercises to the monks. And that is where shaolin kung fu began. I guess I meant to ask where shaolin kung fu came from, btu theis is much more interesting. Please continue.
well a lot of people carry this misconception that Damo (Tamo) brought martial arts to Shaolin, and that that is the birthplace of chinese martial arts.
but we know this is not true, and the monks themselves do not hold it as true.
dr, I’ll look around later tonight- but I think a google search on Seng Chou and “Shaolin” will probably shed light on some of the sources.
Bodhidharma is tamo, god I am an idiot
thank you for clearing that up for me in a pm david.
Richard
FYI- my last post said that I heard tamo brought the 18 excercises to SHAOLIN, and that is where “shaolin” martial arts came from. I am sure that you know that is what I said in my post, just thought i would clear that up just in case. And also, trying to find the earliest examples of martial arts that you guys are talking about is fking fascinatingly mindblowing:D
good stuff
yeah man everything’s cool and easy- now you can drop a bomb on your friend and hit him with some info.
Hey Rich hope all is well, I got a question, I was just wondering where you guys buy your pants I realy like them especialy the orange ones are they sold at Shi Yang Ming’s or do you guys have a distributor??? Amituofo
Hey GC- everything is cool. Just got back from doing a Xiao Hong/Ji Ben gong seminar in Mexico City. Mx City was NUTS. The sheer vastness can not be described.
And the food- I ate at every tortilleria and street stand I could get to. And tortas. They take tamales and put them in between two pieces of buttered mexican bread. God man, it sounds strange but it is delish. There is a small Barrio de China too, one block, but of course Shifu managed to locate the shop with the best noodles. I swear I think the noodles were actually trembling when he spotted them. I love how Chinese introduce local flavor and hybridize the cuisine- our favorite dish was a beef or vegetable ho fun soup with all kinds of mexican chillies and roasted jalapenos.
We also got to meet Monsignor Monroy- who I was told was like 3rd guy down from the Pope as far as Mexico is concerned, for a special audience and a personal presentation of the icon there at the basilica.
Well there was tons of stuff going on. Mexico is thirsty for TCMA.
I met a mexica indian who knew how to make a maquahuitl, so I am really looking forward to going back and collecting that!
The pants- you know we actually get these made ourselves, custom. A bunch of us were in the fashion industry- I used to work for Caffeine, you may have heard of it being from L.I. Anyway I don’t think they break sets so they sell it as a whole robe set.
I’ll pm you.
Okay- here is the record on Seng Chou I have- you know I think there was a post on this forum about this- in the Record of Shaolinsi and also in the Biographies of Eminent Monks- Seng Chou became a monk at Shaolin in the 19th Year of Taihe- he is also mentioned in Taiping Guangji, and also Jiushi Jiwen, SengChou could leap over a man’s head, lift a weight of a 1,000 jun, throw a punch quickly and fiercely, and move without sound.
In one of these sources Hui Guang was said to have been seen kicking a shuttlecok around the rim of a well in Luoyang as an exhibition of his martial skill, and also Seng Chou was seen to seperate two fighting animals.
Actually…after some research it turns out I was wrong…Ha…go figure:p
In reality, Kung Fu came when Jesus wanted to smite King Giddorah for selling some smack to Judas. Turns out that a head full of herion is what inspired the greatest back stab…and Kung Fu!
Okay- here is the record on Seng Chou I have- you know I think there was a post on this forum about this- in the Record of Shaolinsi and also in the Biographies of Eminent Monks- Seng Chou became a monk at Shaolin in the 19th Year of Taihe- he is also mentioned in Taiping Guangji, and also Jiushi Jiwen, SengChou could leap over a man’s head, lift a weight of a 1,000 jun, throw a punch quickly and fiercely, and move without sound.
In one of these sources Hui Guang was said to have been seen kicking a shuttlecok around the rim of a well in Luoyang as an exhibition of his martial skill, and also Seng Chou was seen to seperate two fighting animals.
Ah, thanks a mil richard!
DRleungjan
Thanks rich, I’m realy jealous sounds like you’ve been having a blast. Thanks for the info about the pants, actualy I was reading Your shifu’s new book and I saw the pants and said to mys elf I got to have them.
It’s hard to find quality gear now a days that one can train in, I hate the fancy dancy uniforms with a million frog buttons. I know most folks like the elastick on the ankles but I feel restricted.
Sorry for barging in on this thread and going all off topic and what not. Talk to you soon. Amituofu
from what I have heard, and Richard can probably supply more info, DaMo brought in the Muscle Change Classic and Marrow Washing, and of course, Chan Buddhism.
Kung-Fu already existed and was being practiced at Shaolin, but by adding the Ch’i-Gung to it was like adding the Nos system,turbo,blower,cams, etc , thus bringing Martial Arts to a higher level. Look at what modern training methods,supplementation, nutrition has done to Olympic sports. A little bit of knowledge goes a long way.
The need for origins and ends is a common issue amongst people. Sometimes the answer is not as important as the quest.
Kung fu in the reference to martial arts has no definite origin as some have alluded to rather it is formed from the graduate development of various methods to combat. Be it Shuaijiao or otherwise is irrelevant.
In terms of Tongbeiquan…well being a practitioner our history does not support an old origin. Basically Tongbeiquan was founded by Qi Family who were originally practitioners of moslem Liuhequan, then added Mingtanggong and other various skills via Qi Xin and further developed by Qi Taichang.
In terms of Shaolin, as Richard correctly stated the disciples of Batuo (Such as Sun Zhougu (Sengzhou) and Yang Huiguang) were skillful in the martial arts. In terms of Damo, those stories of the 18 whatever etc…have been out there for so long…the only important component is that of Chan Buddhism.
Kind Regards
Wu Chanlong.
GC- you don’t have to be too jealous man, we got all that good food right in holbrook!! believe it or not. well maybe not all of it, lol…but I did stumble onto a little taqueria in a strip mall opposite one of my other favorite haunts, which is a turkish joint- actually kurdish on rt 112. The guy in there actually cuts his own gyro cutlets and presses them onto a spit. Before he expanded the place I saw him dressing down a whole lamb- this soccer mom was in there and she took one look at the lamb all laid out with its legs up, realized what it was and then looked at the roasting spits, puckered her mouth into a large and larger ‘O’ then walked out. Pretty funny, but I was like hey where do you think meat comes from? Supermarkets? Maybe she should stick to hummus. Anywaywhen I saw that guy butchering the lamb I was like holy sheet, so this is what gyro is supposed to be about!!
I am with you on the elastic. I rip it out, but the new customs nobody wanted elastic on the ankles so…the other nice thing is these are real roomy, especially in the leg and crotch so no more accidental air conditioning vents when you hit pubu from ma bu.
TTigers- yeah we hold pretty much that Damo contributed the Yi Jin Jing, the Xi Sui Jing but it is also our tradition that he brought in a 5 animal and the Lohan shi ba sho. The whole ball of wax is considered Ch’an- some monks actually refer to the Jing in the chi kungs as sutras and prefer not to call them classics or what have you. You know a lot of the gong fu in Shaolin is also laced with buddhist stuff, like in xiao hong chuan and da hong chuan, tong bei quan- they all have Ch’an in them. And of course all the Lohan stuff. It is always said Hui Ke was a martial artist but his contribution has never been mentioned except in passing. I forget the progression but the Lohan Shi Ba Sho gave rise to a huge cluster of forms, each movement became a form, and then subsets of those forms…
Fu Yu is the monk who I think Yan Ming’s ch’an family credits with really developing martial arts in the temple, and his Cao Dong lineage is the one most of the monks are a part of. You still see examples of some of the other families- like Wan Heng. But it is clear that there was always a martial tradition there that was benefitting from exposure and development of a martial tradition that was already existing. Even today many monks come to the temple already with a martial background and we all know the retirement custom monasteries developed or assumed for warriors, officials on the outs, and former rulers. I mean, obviously wars existed in China before Shaolin was founded so it seems silly to even suggest Shaolin was the birthplace of martial arts.
A lot of people make Damo out to be of the kshatriya and thus he is supposed to have had warrior training, yogic influences, etc. I have heard many suggest kalari but really the real importance of the Damo thing is in how it addresses the archetypes needed to create and maintain a transcendental system.
You know a lot of fuss and furor has been raised in recent years especially from the MMAs about the ‘mysticism’ and gobbledeegook laced through Chinese systems- and it seems like a lot of people want to strip that stuff out and just be nuts and bolts about it. But fighting, and taking life especially, does something to you over time. Or it does something to most people over time. Plenty of ancient warrior societies and cultures recognize this- that’s why there is all this mythic structure.
We recently had a really cool experience going down to Annapolis- a professor there was developing a course about warrior culture, and the navy was looking for ways to help it’s officers deal with post traumatic stress syndrome.
It was a really fascinating experience to look at how warrior culture developes and what it needs to handle. I think stripping out all of that stuff is not such a good thing- I mean it depends, because it gives you mechanisms to deal with what you might have to do and when you do it, it provides the psyche a roadmap to return rather than get stuck floating in a no man’s land. So I like a lot of the Ch’an stuff that is in Shaolin.
It invests something into the practice.
What a tangent.