What in gods name is going on?!?!? It’s like the whole world is starting to get antsy and the US seems caught in the middle!!!
Hey, if they want nukes so bad lets send em a couple!
Originally posted by STUDD WILSON
Hey, if they want nukes so bad lets send em a couple!
The problem is that they want them as a present for Japan.
They seem to feel that the effect has been “all but used up” from that last pair we sent over to Hirohito.
I’m thinking, everyone in the world who wants nukes wants them to use on someone right? So we hand out a few to those who want them, and obviously we keep the lions share. Then they use them on the people they want to, and eventually there will be no more people who want to use nukes on other people and the world can settle down into a utopia, after a few hundred years.
yes but you do realise that most of the people who want the nukes intend on using them on the US
perhaps not related to this article, or is it?
hmm
I’m more scared of those dirty bombs, however…
We really don’t know what would happen if one of these big freakin’ bombs were to go off. It is actually one of the things that truely scares me when I think about it.
LOL at Studd!
:mad: at Monkey B: you didn’t send em to Hirohito, you sent em to a couple of million civilians. Not so ****ing funny.
LOL at the clarification: [quote]some nonce in the Oval OfficeThe U.S. official said the United States would make clear “we wish this is a step they do not take” Sounds like it has been translated back from the translation into Korean…! Or is this standard American nowadays?! :eek:
make noodles not war
It is regrettable that N. Korea is getting involved in all of this. That spells trouble brewing behind the scenes, mainly cuz they never were predictable to begin with. Part of the whole ‘axis of evil’ that shrub talks about.
FYI: Currently the atomic clock is set at seven minutes. This will probly be updated soon enough to take current events into account. For comparison, check the history at that site.
Mat,
I understand your horror at the result of the two atomic bombings, and I too regret the great loss of life, BUT it is a fact that even more Japanese would have had to die than the casualty figures at Hiroshima and Nagasaki in order to end the war. Additional American lives would have been lost as well, which you may or may not care about. Figure in the higher casualties in all occupied territories if the war had gone on and the even greater encroachment of the Soviets into northeast Asia (leading to more Koreans, Chinese, Manchurians, and Japanese being killed or oppressed), and the logic behind the use of the a-bombs can begin to be justified.
Originally posted by Mat
[B]LOL at Studd!
:mad: at Monkey B: you didn’t send em to Hirohito, you sent em to a couple of million civilians. Not so ****ing funny.[/B]
I have only one thing to say about that, we nuked the *******s who bore, bred and suported those who perpertrated the Rape of Nanking, Invasion of Manchuria and the Long March of Bataan.
They got off easy, so shut your mouth and save some of those calories for your starving sense of morality.
Monkeyboy.
The fire bombing of Tokyo and other Cities are still the biggest War crimes ever commited by the USA.
Tokyo alone had an estimated 100.000 CIVILIAN deaths.
When you got NO **** on your stick than you can talk big.
Just my 0.2 cents worth.
lost family in hiroshima and personally was on the recieving end of hate that came from the cancer of those nukes…and yet it was the right thing to do.
No one would be speaking Japanese if we hadn’t
Originally posted by Liokault
You cant say that nuking japan was right or wrong as it really was total war with no real civilians.
No. I can say that it was wrong. Believe me, having met many Japanese people of that age, there were many many very real civilians. Please explain your statement.
Monkeyboy has spoken
I have only one thing to say about that, we nuked the *******s who bore, bred and suported those who perpertrated the Rape of Nanking, Invasion of Manchuria and the Long March of Bataan.
Oh, OK. My mistake. We should have killed them all. Maybe I should start today…:rolleyes:
Not racist much?! Care to tell us your blameless ancestry and justify your existance?
Funny, I’m also friends with three families of three generations of Nanking Chinese living here, who would be just as horrified at your statement.
MonkeyBoy
They got off easy, so shut your mouth and save some of those calories for your starving sense of morality.
HumanMan 1
Mat,
I understand your horror at the result of the two atomic bombings, and I too regret the great loss of life, …
HumanMan 2
Thanks Stranger, for your considered answer…
:rolleyes:
Mat,
I think Liokault did not mean that “no citizens died”. “Total War” and the quest for autarky were very popular political ideologies following WW I. The world wondered, “How can a nation that was performing well on the battlefield (Germany) lose so decisively and completely?” The answer was that they were not self sufficient. The Allies did not just shoot Central Power soldiers; they attacked supply lines, lowered the quality of life back in Germany, and destroyed Germany’s ability to maintain its effective fighting force. Many nations took to learn from Germany’s costly lesson.
Japan believed in the concept as well (if you want to get a feel for the theory and how it applies to the situation read Japan Prepares for Total War: The Search for Economic Security, 1919-1941 by Micahael A. Barnhart).
The theory, when applied to Liokault’s statement, would argue that although the bombing victims in Japan were civilians, they were supporting the war effort directly or indirectly and linked to morale and thus viable military targets. Japan held this as their policy and so too did the US. This is part of the roots of the Allies demand for “unconditional surrender”.
My earlier comment about you “possibly not caring about American casualties” was not to characterize you as an insensitive person, but simply acknowledging that it would be understandable if you had lost family or friends in the bombings you might not want or be able to emotionally detach from the event to ‘appreciate’ the the rationale of using the bomb. It wasn’t a dis. I was respecting your grief.
To the statement that the US firebombing of Tokyo was one of the greatest war crimes in US history, I just want to point out that the US did the same thing in Germany (just so this discussion doesn’t get racial, as it often does). I’m not flaming Laughing Cow, as his post did not suggest this.
LioKault,
North Korea’s possession of nukes is scary because they a) threaten their neighbors (S. Korea and Japan) without any external provocation and b) they sell their technology to nations that have used weapons of mass destruction as a terror weapon (ie. Iraq against its own people, Pakistan as a sabre to rattle at India, etc.)
Sho,
North Korea’s govt. has filed a complaint against the Bond producers for their portrayal of North Koreans as dangerous wildcards.
I think it is ironic since their worst PR comes right out of their own mouths.
Originally posted by Laughing Cow
[B]Monkeyboy.
The fire bombing of Tokyo and other Cities are still the biggest War crimes ever commited by the USA.
Tokyo alone had an estimated 100.000 CIVILIAN deaths.
When you got NO **** on your stick than you can talk big.
Just my 0.2 cents worth. [/B]
The Japanese killed more Chinese in a day by hand then we did with our Atomics.
Neither the US nor the Chinese started that war, it was unprovoked. The Japanese wanted to use our oil and steel to kill and conquer Asia, we refused and they murdered both military and civilians at Pearl in retaliation.
We managed to defeat them without the same dishonor that they brought on themselves with a sneal attack. We did it without forcing entire civilizations into slavery, prostitution and genocide.
Since our response to their aggression left less Japanese dead than they had killed themselves, YES Americans have less “crap on our stick than they do.”
Originally posted by Mat
[B]Not racist much?! Care to tell us your blameless ancestry and justify your existance?
Funny, I’m also friends with three families of three generations of Nanking Chinese living here, who would be just as horrified at your statement.
:rolleyes: [/B]
-
Since I said nothing nor implyed anything racist, go take a leap.
-
You do not speak for the dead of China, so shut up.
If you go back and read, I assume you can read, you’ll see this is about Koreans hating the Japanese. They want nukes because nothing was ever done to make reparations to them for what they suffered at the hands of Japan in the 30’s and 40’s.
Japan was an aggressor in that war and since they can’t go back in time and change that, they will forever pay for it. We all as individuals and countries and races make mistakes and the only way to get better is not to forget, whitewash or lie about the past.
In America selling white people into slavery led to selling black people into slavery, which led to a power struggle, which led to war, which showed us our error and after 100 years of peace and acceptance we were able to come up with Civil Rights Laws and a handful of progress. We didn’t go back to slavery. Japan lies about the past to itself and others, still maintains it’s arrorgance and the koreans feel that they will go back to their old ways. It’s been 60 years and they haven’t moved toward reparations, they moved towards denial.
You can’t correct a mistake if you don’t admit it happened nor accept reponsibilty for it.
Japan lies in it’s history textbooks about the war and the Koreans are justified in their anger, even today some are weak enough to believe that there might have been another way to end the war. Sorry there wasn’t, not without killing them all and by the way, we didn’t. We had a dozen destroyers loaded with nerve gas shells off their shores in case the bombs were duds. Trust me, they got off easy.
It is cold and hard fact that Japan intended to conquer out nation and use it for slave labor. Germany also planned to do the same to the Soviet block.
You may like who you live with and where you are, that’s fine. If you do not like history because you now reside there, that’s no excuse to run from reality. Your hosts may be the nicest people in the world, I hope they are but history can’t be changed. If it could, we’d all spend it re-living our mistakes but since it can’t, that’s no excuse to make excuses or create revisionist history.
Japan made war in the name of racial superiority, so please stop your useless rant about racism. If your family ever is murdered in the name of racial superiority, I sincerely hope after time you can forget about it and tolerate people who think whoever did it are just as grand and blameless as the Japanese you reside with now.
P.S. As for my “blameless ancestors”, my family came from Catholic Ireland, maternal and paternal family lines have both lived in America since the colonies. My Mother’s family had two brothers exiled to Botany Bay Colony but the transports Captain sold them here as labor in Georgia in the early 1700’s. My father’s family got here 60 years later, he was a professional soldier serving with the Hessians as a Grenadier in the American Revolution.
Monkeyboy is correct. We shouldn’t forget what beasts the Japanese were/can be when too involved with nationalism. Further, it was war. They certainly would be reminding us of that [and rubbing our noses in it] if they’d won. They’re whiners, and I say ‘nuts to them’.
And he has the good taste to be descended from a colonial mick, too! 
['course german and irish…yeaarrrgggh! Whiskey and schnapps don’t mix!]
Monkeyboy, you are missing my point.
I never claimed to speak for the Chinese dead.
I’m certainly no apologist for Japanese history, nor their shameful revisionism of it and I challenge this more often, more directly and probably more sensitively than you ever have.
I also encounter racism from my kindly hosts every day, so don’t lecture me on what you suppose I feel towards them. It isn’t for the forum.
My basic complaint with you is that I didn’t like your ‘joke’.
I accept that you feel it perfectly justified. I still don’t like it. C’est la vie. If you can’t respond without telling me to shut up, or being similarly ill-mannered, there is clearly nothing to be gained from either of us continuing this ‘discussion’.
Stranger: thank you, I was missing Liokault’s point about Total War as a philosophical standpoint. While I agree it’s necessary to hit the infrastructure, I still don’t agree with indiscriminate mass attacks on the general population, then or now.
Mat.
Forget MonkeyBoy, ZIM and MightyB they are jingoists.
No matter what you say they still think that they are right and that everybody besides the USA is the pits and wrong.
For them everybody else is wrong and only they are right.
Just my 0.2 cents worth of thought.