Because of the ground. I’ve said that multiple times. I recognize that. The groundfighting in the current blend is much more intense thanks to a traditional brazilian art.
You will never hear a MMA stylist say that he and his training parnters never punch full forcel when training and/or competing. However, you will often hear that from TMA practitioners, as cited poster had stated.
Oh you just wait until it becomes even more commercial. It’s just a matter of time.
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What year(s) did you train there?
OMG I just realized something…
Mantis053 is talking about Count Dante as in the Black Dragon Fighting Society!!
Count Dante is a world Reknown Fraud!!! You could do a search and find dozens of pages of people who have busted his lies.
LMAO… so much for your MMA training…
Quote:
A truly traditional martial arts trains in many of the same manners that MMA fighters train, excellent physical condtioning, hard contact sparring, throws and groundwork,
TMA’s have “traditionally” left at least one of these areas out of the equation. For example, hard and continuous training on the ground was unheard of in TMA’s before BJJ and MMA were introduced to the world outside of Brazil.
So that means that BJJ is not MMA since it leaves out at least one of those areas. Would you consider BJJ traditional since it does have certain traditions?
BJJ is not MMA. BJJ is 90 to 95% focused on the ground.
BJJ is more traditional than MMA but not as traditional as CMA.
In the “old days” we certainly did spar with “ground fighting” but, and this is a big but, what we saw as ground fighting was influeneced by the traditional Chinese martial art idea of ground fighting…
We never thought about pinning, controlling position, submissions, etc… we thought about hitting the guy who was thrown, stomping on him, and we thought about kicking and sweeping from teh bottom and getting up…
You could fault it in a few ways, that’s on you really, but the idea that TMA never sparred or never worked “live” is not 100% correct
Dave I have video footage of sifu CTS taking us through advanced ground controlling Tech. I havent wached it in years, but my point is that we always practiced ground fighting. I must admit you are right when it come to doing sport oriented wresteling type pining and what not. Our ground fighting was more for the street.
These debates now a days are silly. Every style has its weaknesses if people haven’t made any modifications to there systems by now than that’s just stupid.
I can remember a time when we first opened the Mineola school when you were totaly against any westernized train of thought. In fact these were your words verbatum " I’l be damed if I turn this into A Jeet Kune Do school.
For me our kung fu sytem was good because it provided us with many ranges and theories of fighting. But I was always aware of gaps in the style so I filled them.
Have you seen Bas Rutten’s Street Fighting video? He talks about using these very same techniques.
I saw it but I was too busy laufing, I wonder if he knows how funny he is. Everything that he did in the bar is stuff that we focus on, you know street fighting. But most of what he did is from Krav Ma ga. wich seems to be a well rounded system of self defese that is influenced by many systems.
haha Bas Rutten’s video is so violent.
The hot sauce move was hilarious.
I like the part where he snaps the guys ankle off the chair for looking at his wife:D
to knifefighter
[indent]I studied there from the begining of 2000 to the begining of 2001. I studied under William V. Aguiar and his son. He took over after Dan-TE died in 1975. Master Aguiar died in 2005. ST00 I don’t if he was a fraud or not the man died in the year I was born. When I said it was like MMA was because in the manner in which we trained. They taught me a variety of grappling arts and striking arts in full contact combat. I will not sit here and participate in dishonoring a dead master that’s nolonger here to defend himself but if you have documented proof on this. Educate Me. Just don’t make empty staments. Back it up with clear undisputed facts and not just hear say.[/indent] [indent]Kifefighter I was told by Master Aguiar and I seen a certificate on the wall certifying him to teach bjj other then that I can’t tell any more. Well everyone it’s been interesting reading all your posts but this debate can go on forever. I guess it comes down to what your looking for. I would like to make one more point before I go. From What I have read Tai Chi is a martial art and alot of older people take it because of it’s slow and low inpact training. Can you inmagine a 70 year old training in MMA they probably would have a heart attack or break somehting with in the first 2 min. All of you have a good night.[/indent] [indent]SIGNING OFF NOBBY[/INDENT]www.blackdragon.co.za/kate_dante.htm
- MMA is not “fast.” There is nothing fast about it. The only thing that might make it SEEM fast is that many people who train MMA are training to compete. This forces them to put in more training time than the “average” TMA person, who, we have all agreed, is typically not training to compete. The rate at which people get better is nothing more than a function of focus and time spent practicing properly. This is universal. The fast but not as good, slow but better in the end thing is a false distinction.
first, i for one know that there is no teacher like experience. In matters of this nature it is not as simple as the self evident “it’s hot so don’t touch it”. Experience is required to give insight in regards to this subject and armchairing is only that. As you know, we have many armchair guys on both sides of the post, those who have only training in so called mma and those who have only trainined in so called tcma.
Neither camp can speak with any authority on teh other with the exception of those people who have experience in both. Please accept that I can’t accept the calls of someone who has zero experience and can only congeal and regurgitate the commoents they’ve glened off others. That’s not directed at your merry, But suffice it to say, there is no teacher like direct experience, never had been and never will be.
on your first point, I disagree. the cycle of training in mma type venues is quick and focuses on far fewer things than a traditional buffet of training.
IN an mma club, if you are not in the ring inside of 90 days, then what the he11 are you doing there? You aren’t training for the venue that’s fopr sure and short of being severly disabled or mentally handicapped, you will be crossing hands and getting into teh thick of it much more quickly than someone in a traditional venue.
the mma-ist will get better faster with his smaller selection of tools and will be able to use them more effectively. Only thing is, injuries will be higher and the toolbox will take more time to grow and structure and form will gradually improve and in doing so will improve the delivery of the techs.
In the meantime, the traditionalist is doing things that will never make their way into regular mma training cycles. Things are done with an eye towards longevity, general health and peace and well being etc etc. These things are common in tcma training and mma training is virtually completely devoid of this type of training. IN fact, many despise it because they feel it has nothing to do with competitive fighting…and, well it doesn’t, not directly anyway.
so on point one, I disagree with you. I see it and have seen it differently than that. So that’s an experiential thing and when I see more consitent difference than this, I may be easier to convince, but for now, my opinion is that it is your view that is incorrect.
on point two, that is just hypothetical. Can’t say really. The idea in many traditional arts is to curb one’s violence because of the typically pseudo-religious oprigins of many tma. the buddhism, the taoism, the philosophy of non agression paired and juxtaposed against the training of fighting and kiolling methods and techniques.
In short, people may choose which ever they like or both, but if they’re not going to taste then they have no place commenting on a falvour they do not know.