No it isn’t possible that I’m wrong. There are many schools of Pak Mei and many interpretations, however one thing is certain there are many more hand formations than the phoenix eye fist. This is not in contention. Refer to a simpler source for evidence of this, Mr Un’s book ‘Pak Mei’ where Cheung Lai Cheun is shown performing Nine Step Push. Clearly shown is Bil Jee, Fu Jao. My teacher was taught by Mr Un.
So answer the question from your quoted source, is Lau Gar in there?
As I have already explained if you had taken the time to read, I have in the past been in many competitions where I have “fought” Lau Gar people, I have had contact with Lau Gar students who then came to me for training and have seen the sets and techniques that they have learnt, and I have seen some of the Lau Gar schools in this area. Now compared to your 12 years in the style, no I obviously don’t know as much, however I clearly know a lot more about Lau Gar then you do about Pak Mei.
Lau Gar is mentioned in Jane Hallanders book on page 71.
Quote" Lau Gar- Founded by Lau Soam Ngan. It is a middle length hand system, not often taught in present times." ( as opposed to never)
As for H.B.Un’s book,I have a copy.
Yes I know about the other techniques, beu gee,fu jau etc, but doesn’t this show that there are many different opinions regarding many styles?
I will say something though, and that is that I HAVE seen some really **** Lau Gar in this country, and Master Yau is aware that many of his older instructors that were part of the tournament scene do not teach in a very traditional way.
Unfortunatly A tree has many branches, some bear fruit and some are riddled with maggots!
I agree - because the system has been so popular there are some bad instructors out there. However, if you can find a good sifu (and I have) who teaches Lau Gar as a traditional chinese style then the system is a good one.
Lau Gar has been around for many years in the UK now - surely it would have been well and truly rubbished by now if it was without merit as a fully fledged style.
Crawling Tiger: but doesn’t this show that there are many different opinions regarding many styles?
Yes, but as tnwingtsun says (thanks BTW) Jane has no clue. I am 99.9% sure that without exception all Pak Mei schools for example teach Jek Bo, therefore there is no different opinion here regarding exclusive use of Phoenix Eye, (unless someone is going to say that “their” Jek Bo only uses Phoenix)
Crawling Tiger: Master Yau is aware that many of his older instructors that were part of the tournament scene do not teach in a very traditional way.
Thats mostly what I’ve seen, and there are probably third or maybe fourth generation students of these people now teaching.
Crawling Tiger: Unfortunatly A tree has many branches, some bear fruit and some are riddled with maggots!
LauPaul: Lau Gar has been around for many years in the UK now - surely it would have been well and truly rubbished by now if it was without merit as a fully fledged style.
Dont led the bad taint the good
Just saying like I’ve seen it guys, no disrespect to you or your style intended.
Are there any good classes/schools in East Anglia I can take a look at, that you know of?
MarkS: Detect what? and when did your name change?
You appeared a wee bit tetchy.
I was reading a thread about names and why people had chosen them so it seemed a nice idea to have one of my own.
Therefore “Crawling Tiger” . As it is a favorite excerise of mine!
Crawling Tiger: Master Yau is aware that many of his older instructors that were part of the tournament scene do not teach in a very traditional way.
MarkS: Thats mostly what I’ve seen, and there are probably third or maybe fourth generation students of these people now teaching.
C T: Tell me about it! I saw some guys recently sporting brown sash (3-5 years training) that couldn’t even stand correctly, and their forms well! made me want to cry!
Crawling Tiger: Unfortunately A tree has many branches, some bear fruit and some are riddled with maggots!
LauPaul: Lau Gar has been around for many years in the UK now - surely it would have been well and truly rubbished by now if it was without merit as a fully fledged style.
Dont led the bad taint the good
MarkS: Just saying like I’ve seen it guys, no disrespect to you or your style intended.
Are there any good classes/schools in East Anglia I can take a look at, that you know of?
C T: No Problem!
I had a quick look on the BKFA website, and there are no clubs listed in Eastern England.
You are welcome to pop down to London sometime and see us. My instructor is listed on the site.
CT: I had a quick look on the BKFA website, and there are no clubs listed in Eastern England.
Thats interesting then, as there are a lot of classes and clubs in, for instance, Norfolk, (some mighty high ‘degrees’ of black sash as well).
Ah well.
As someone said to me once when I made a comment about some high grades we met.
“Don’t look at the colour of the sash, look at the quality of the technique”.
Notdon’t ask me to explain why there are these people about,
you might find ( and this is from experience) that the high grades were trained in a far more traditional method than they actually teach.
But if an instructor has trained for many years traditionally, but chooses to teach a more modern format who can tell them otherwise.
I mean take a look at Wing chun. So many different varients about now.
I strongly believe that you have to take each class, and each instructor on an individual basis.
The style of Lau Ga was founded by Lau Sam-Ngan at the end of the 18th century. Master Lau lived in Ying Tak County of Guangdong province and because he had a scar on his forehead which resembled a third eye he received the nickname of “Three-eyed Lau” ( Lau Sam-Ngan ). His actual name was slowly forgotten. Lau learned his kungfu from a Shaolin monk and excelled in pole techniques ( According to some stories, he learned many skills from his wife but unfortunately her name has been lost ). After mastering the Shaolin techniques from his master he devised his own style of Kungfu, naming it Lau Ga Kuen which means fist-art of the Lau family.
Lau Ga is a highly economic style which contains only two empty-hand forms and one staff form. From an angle of practicality, the pole techniques are unique and most useful. The movements of the staff contains the “swishing coins on the ground” technique which was the unique skill of Lau Sam-Ngan. The fist techniques are aimed purely for close-range fighting and the height of the strikes does not exceed that of the eye-brows. All three forms begins with three salutations, which makes Lau Ga a very polite style. Each form contains sections which must be performed on both sides to make the practitioner get familiar with the techniques. The style gained much popularity at the end of the Qing dynasty and became the second style of Southern boxing to Hung Ga kungfu.
The Lau Ga stick techniques were very popular in the northern regions of Guangdong while in the area of Guangzhou the fist forms were widely practiced. But in recent years this style is rarely found. Fortunately many Hung Ga schools have taken up the 3 forms of Lau Ga into their curriculum, allowing the student to learn this simple but effective style of Southern kungfu.
This question keeps on cropping up from time to time on the forum(is Lau in the UK traditional?)
Also is Lau Gar taught as a Kickboxing style?
When i started training in Lau Gar in the mid 1980’s only the traditional style was taught.In about 1989 a SEPARATE! kickboxing syllabus was introduced to enable competition only fighters something to focus on.
Lau Gar has ruled the roost in Semi Contact as well as full since the early 1970’s.Steve Babbs,Alfie Lewis,Kevin Brewerton are just some names that spring to mind.
To gain entrance into the Lau ‘A’ Team a talent for sparring was the obvious choice, but also to be a Black Sash 1st Degree or above.This meant that all the team members had trained in the traditional system.
Let me try to explain using another example.If someone exelled in the 100m sprint and later went on to become an Olympic champion,that person would have trained in all aspects of athletics.It’s just that sprinting was their thing and they focused all their energy into that.There are some good all rounders,and i agree that as an Instructor you should be one.To teach well you should be well versed in all areas of your style.
If any one has ever been to the British Kung Fu Association Nationals they would have seen the traditional and the modern side by side.
There are some excellent traditional Lau Gar instructors in the UK.Master Yau’s senior instructors Like John Russell,Mike Lavender,Pete Hornby Have been training in the traditional art for 30 years and have produced many traditional instructors themselves.
I usually like to stay out of this sort of thing as it is essentially impossible for anyone to win in this discussion. Now British Lau Gar may have a tradition of it’s own but this doesn’t make it the traditional Lau Gar style that people accept as the original. And good fighters are always admired/appreciated but there is more to a martial art than tournaments ( and tournament style fighting).
What seems to be confusing me is this pride in fighting in semi-contact and the likes when it is sooooooo untraditional and undermines most of what makes kung fu “kung fu”. I know some nice guys from the Lau Gar group here in the UK but nothing I have seen has led me to think that they are from the traditional lineage.
Still you have to admire the guts/tactics/hard work or whatever that has made this into probably the largest kung fu group over here.
So maybe we should just agree to disagree about whether the guys here are traditional (and no slagging each other off! ) and go have a friendly pint.
R,
You seem to have missed the point.What I was trying to say was that Semi Contact Points fighting was a small part of what we do.It is an off-shoot nothing more than that.The classes I teach have always been traditional with points fighting as only a small portion of the syllabus.
Yes we are proud of our fighters, but we are equally proud of our Kung Fu and its tradition.
What I can’t understand is why nobody has ever seen a traditional Lau Gar class? Maybe I have been fortunate that I have been taught in this way since day 1.
I’ve seen a traditional lau gar class; in fact I too have been lucky enough to have seen nothing else in the 3 years I’ve been training. I’ve also had 3 years of reading posts from people saying lau isn’t traditional/worthy/for real/etc etc. All I can say (that I haven’t said already, many times before) is that if you think lau gar is all kickboxing and little else, you’re really missing the point. So thank you lausan, for putting our point across so well.
) and go have a friendly pint.