Here is an observation. In my years in the CMA, I have noticed something. A lot of Praying mantis Sifus (and a lot traditional CMA sifus) have fear of making money teaching their art. Some will fall back to the same excuses, “Kung fu is for health”, “I don’t want to be commercial”, “I don’t charge that much so as to train the students hard and traditional so if any quite then that’s their problem.”
But that has nothing to do with what you are worth. How much time, sweat, blood, and money have you invested into your training to reach the level at which you are right now. And how much more of those same things are going to give to continue achieving your goals?
I have met several CMA instructors that teach traditionally and have very successful studios. If you don’t want to be commercial and only want to have a few dedicated students, cool, but charge them what you are worth.
You are the only one that knows that.
Please put in your 2 cents worth. That was mine. Depending on your responses, I can provide answers on running a traditional commercial studio.
I have found that when I charged less money I had less students who where much less dedicated. When I began raising prices I signed up more students who trained harder. I doubled the size of my school. I dont know why but it happened that way. (I am still only 2/3 of the price of the local karate schools though)
I still stay away from programs like “Black Belt Clubs” that may seem like a scam to students.
I do have extra programs, but they spell out exactly what a student will get for that program and it is still their choice to participate in it.
I said that the best thing my instructor ever did for me was to make me pay. If I payed money for my training or extra material It seemed like I practied it more which of course makes your Kung Fu better. I have found it works for my students as well. I also make more money in the long run.
Of course there is the great selling phrase “Praying Mantis kung fu is very rare, you will be lucky to study it here”.
There is no doubt that there are two schools of thought on the issue of monetary compensation for instruction.
Traditionally, a teacher was given a gift in appreciation for his instruction. Whether that gift was money, food, shelter, something random with either sentimental or monetary value, or services…that was left to the student. Because the student was given instruction on more than just techniques (philosphy, etiquette, respect, honor, etc.), the student understood the value of his teacher and the desire to express his gratitude was automatic.
When I first began my search for a teacher, I had no idea what was appropriate as compensation and wound up being taken for far more than the training was worth. So, for those prospective students in search of an honest teacher, what constitutes appropriate compensation?
How much is too much?
If a genuinely dedicated student offers what they have to give (apart from money or not enough money), what is the rule of thumb?
What is a great master worth and how is a student to know?
What are your thoughts on initial payment? How much is appropriate when a student walks in for the first time?
I do a Kung Fu Club, only part-time. My students have the opportunity to train 10 hours a week, 40 hours a month. My price is about the same as the local Karate guys. Not sure about everyone else here, but it seems for me, PM Kung Fu attracts a lower income crowd. Yet my students are very dedicated. There are some local Shifus who teach for free. That being said, Ive seen their stuff and it is chop suey. It has, and still does cost me alot of dinero to continue my studies. I have to take airplanes and travel alot, this all costs me. But it makes me better, thus makes my students better. I do not feel bad about asking for the price that I do. I feel that Im worth it. But I do believe you can price yourself out. Isnt this kind of training mostly considered a hobby for most? Nice post Sayloc, I agree with what you shared.
Back in 1989, we had a martial arts business consultant come down to our school and teach us the business side of running a school. Well, he informed us that the martial arts was pretty much the only industry that did not increase their prices with inflation. Example, in 1972 group classes were about $30 a month. If prices would have gone up with inflation, in 1987, group classes should have been around $280 a month. But we can’t charge that right now because it didn’t go up with inflation.
We charge $109 a month and plan on increasing rates $10 every year. I live in one of the “poorest” areas in the nation according to goverment information, and people pay what we ask for.
Every sifu has his own beliefs on this matter and I know I will probably not change your mind. And I respect ya’lls positions.
But for those that want to do it full-time and make a good comfortable living doing it, well you can. And you don’t have to lower your standards or lower your integrity.
You have to fit into your market in a relative manner.
the most expensive school here is $95 a month and it’s frankly crap TKD.
The next down is a good Karate/Jujitsu school that is $85 a month for the first type of class and then he charges an additional lesser fee if you want to do jujitsu as well as karate or vice versa. This school is the paradigm for our community: a nice 6000 sf facility, 20+ years in the community, the instructor is in with the LEO’s and does volunteer outreach and SD classes.
A year ago I was $40 a month for two 1 hour classes a week, I’ve gone up to $60 a month for three 2 hour classes a week. I teach out of a rec center and until I can offer a real ‘school’ building to my students I will probably not go up again.
I find it harder to harder to match the Korean Karate guys price because by the time I averaged what they make on thier colored belt group testing I would have to charge $130 a month ( I live in a poor area) and that is what they get with a one year contract. I dont do contracts (never really needed them to keep students).
Hard to compete when they test every two months, ready or not, for $50 a head and up to $350 for the more advanced belts. If they have 100 students…well, just do the math.
I dont like the colored belt cystem because from what I have seen (not speaking for anyone else) it develops bad attitudes that is more about ego than training.
I feel teaching the mantis system, the student gets twice the info for half the money compared to the watered down Karate.
I make my living at this, so it can be frustrating.
I will just try to find a good balance and I think that the most important thing is that I feel good about myself at the end of the day.
I’ve recently gotten a wholesale account w/ Century and I guess it comes with a monthly magazine, I think the NAPMA rag.
Anyway, I was flipping through the latest and had to ask myself this question:
Where is the martial arts???
There wasn’t a single thing about karate, tkd, whatever.
It was all about how to make a buck.
sad, but it’s worth reading to see what we, in our attempt to teach good kung fu AND make a living, are up against.
I don’t want to sell out, but I’ve got to do something to get enrollment up.
The next plan is to get a booth at the local minor league basketball, baseball and hockey games and see what I can do by showing some of what we do.
Downside, will of course be dealing with a bunch of idiots. Luckily, I know enough cops that I can probably get someone in uniform to be close enough to disuade any attempts to show up the kung fu guy.
I noticed that you teach out of a rec center. Do you have an add in the yellow pages just for your club. Maybe the yellow book (this is different than the regular yellow pages)? The adds are not very expensive and are very effective.
Since you are in a rec center you probably dont have a sign. I bought a sign that is about 4 feet tall that is plastic and put Martial arts - Kung fu - Tai chi - phone # on both sides. You could put it out by the road to get drive by when you are there or get permision to leave it out over night from the center once in a while. This has worked very well for me since I do not have frontage along the main street. The signs are between 50 and 100 bucks. You can fill them with sand or water to keep them from blowing away. (you wont need a sign permit)
Maybe you could offer your current students a Little $$ for every new person they bring in that signs up.
Demos nefer really work for me by the time I get all the people for lion dance and the demo it can get involved. I do think it does have value though.
One last thing. Cable advertising may be an option. It is not as expensive as you would think but still a llitle to much for one kung fu guy. Maybe if you talked to the rec center and got them and the aerobics instructor, Yoga instructor, tai chi instructor or who ever to do a blanket commercial covering the center it would make it affordable for everyone.
I hadn’t thought about the yellow pages because I don’t use a land line at all, just my cel.
don’t have a sign at the rec center but had one at the Gym where I used to teach. 6’ wide and two foot tall with a beautiful 22’’ graphic of the classic 5 animals (my old system). Pulled in exactly one student over about a years time.
I did put a 2’ real estate type sign up at the road but got nothing off of it, then it was stolen, or blew away.
I’ve thought about incentives, actually, I havn’t said it in a while but i used to offer free private lessons for even getting one person to walk in the door. Need to remind them that that is still an option and retroactively owe a couple of hours to some folks.
It’s a city rec center and I am a for profit person, they make their money off of me but I’m the only program there.
I think word of mouth is probably the best thing so over the next 6 months I’m gonna try the demo bit w/ some flyers/handouts.
Just traded the owner of our official school restaurant a school t-shirt for some wall space in his foyer to hang a poster. We go in there at least a couple times a month after class and he’s been bugging me for a shirt so I made a deal with him.
Colleges are about to come back in so I’m going to try some other flyer hanging out near the campuses.
good brainstorming, thanks…hopefully OnT enough to stay.
I think one of the reasons mantis attracts a lower income crowd in your area may be because “soccer moms” dont set around and talk about there son learning bung bo or effective two person drills. It is easier to better their social standing by bragging about their 8 year old “black belt”.
For example, if you charge an initial down payment, let’s say $150, then offer your present students a $50 cash award if they bring in someone who does enroll into your program. But don’t stop there. Go back to that restaurant and take your friend there some gift certificates (offering 2 weeks of classes free). Explain to him that he is to give them away to his most dedicated customers as a reward for frequenting his business. Let him know that if anyone that he sends over enrolls into your school you will give him $50 cash. Do this in as many businesses that you frequent and offer them the same deal.
Remember, when you charge an initial down payment, you include at least the first month tuition, the cost of whatever merchandise that you give them (pants, t-shirt, etc.), and at least $50 more to able to cover the cash awards.
I think I’ve got a little bit of conflict with the big up front fee. How would you justify to the prospective student the sum of money beyond the real cost of first month fees and merch?
Right now we’re just training in the school t-shirt and I don’t even make them buy one of those till they feel like they are going to be seriuos about it.
All my students have some of my cards that they can give people for two free weeks. My right hand person (ming yue) has carte blanche to market as she sees fit.
That is a great idea to give out coupons to retailers/restaurants.
something more to think about.
I’d be interested to hear form Sifu Cottrell as to his marketing strategies.
I hear ya! I attract the Artsy crowd… real troopers though. The place I rent space from would like for me to offer a kids program starting this fall. I prefer teaching adults, but from what I hear, you can make some coinage with kids program. Any suggestions are welcome!
pay them initially through reduced or free tuition.
you’ll probably need to be there most days but if you teach your kids class and then your adults, you are in for a long night.
If the dance school is willing for you to have kids class 4 nights a week, split the nights into two groups by age. M/W for one and T/Tr for the other.
frankly, the claim “we dont’ want to be commercial” is crap… traditional teachers didn’t necessarily charge a monthly tuition, but they more than expected to be taken care of, MORE than a tuition actually!!!
I Baai Si’ed with my sifu, which meant that I often paid his rent, his gambling debts, bought him groceries, paid his airfare to events, cleaned his house and various other not so wonderful tasks.
I never figured it out exactly, but I can be sure I usually spent more than $300 per month on him… that’s more than most tuitions in so called “commercial schools”
Today, my school is open 6 days a week, I have classes all day, I have heavy bags, mats, a ring, weights, and I have a staff to pay. Obviously, I have bills to pay. And I have mouths to feed. So I have no reservations about charging $120 per month and actually collecting it.
I"m in NYC, I defy people to find similar quality at a cheaper rate. There are some $50 per month guys out there, they are usually renting space, have classes 2 or 3 times a WEEK (I have 6 per DAY) and, not for nothing, who are they anyway?
We just have issues keeping some people… Too many college students and the like. My teacher still doesn’t want to do contracts though, I think it comes down to marketing yourself right.
