Hi all,
This is my 1st thread and any comments/answers would be much appreciated.
WC people can easily perform 100 to 1000 chain punches effortlessly, without being short of breath and in a relaxed manner. I personally find it difficult to remain relaxed and breathing normally after chain punching.
So, how does one do it?
Do you breathe in before the punch and breathe out when you execute you punch?
Is there any difference in breathing when doing 1 punch and 1000 punches ??
Hen
Hi there. Unlike some other arts, in WCK you breathe normally when you a technique, including chain-punching. If you’re breathing normally (which might not actually be ‘normal’ based on whatever breathing practice you’re doing in your training… but it will at least be regular, I digress…) then you don’t get out of breath.
Part of the teaching of the Sui Lum Tao is to teach the practicioner how to disconnect their breathing from their techniques. Many martial arts most notably Karate connect their breathing with their techniques (kiah), what this does is actually make you more tired and winded. In the first section of the Sui Lum Tao the concentration is on the breathing, just breath normally (abdomen breathing) and just perform the technique i.e. Tan, whu, fook, huen, dai jueng, normally.
By doing. Lots of punches. You’ll probably find that your shoulders get tense.
Do them slower and focus on relaxing rather than speed or power, that will come later.
I personally find it difficult to remain relaxed and breathing normally after chain punching.
So, how does one do it? -----
IMHO, that can be range from: the breathing is not understood. one’s in-effective tensing habit is in the way of the breathing, and the holistic integration was not train to do the job naturally.
Do you breathe in before the punch and breathe out when you execute you punch? ----
IMHO,
One breath out while punching. However, using the Mind or Layer 3 of XLM to control the breathing or Layer 2 of XLM to fit the physical action can be a biggest unnature, due to the breathing is a different type of animal that one has to understood and knowing its characteristics to deal with.
The breathing is not going to be harmonized to the brute force command from the mind with tensing different part of the body.
Is there any difference in breathing when doing 1 punch and 1000 punches ?? -----
is every breathing similar to machine that doing the same thing without changing? how does breathing work according to physical and according to mental speculation? perhaps it is the time to find out?
Keep practicing , you’re not going to get there overnight! Also, make sure your mechanics are right. Most people use a lot of muscles that aren’t needed. keep practicing and think about it while doing so. You have to be able to deliver enough power to do the job, yet be soft enough in the shoulders at the same time to be deflected if you come into contact. only then will you come to a point of feeling that you will be able to react to. In my opinion you should do a lot of chain punches as well as using the wall bag at an extremely close distance to help you develop the elbow force necessary to become a comprehensive WT/WC practitioner
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Part of the teaching of the Sui Lum Tao is to teach the practicioner how to disconnect their breathing from their techniques. ------
This is totally pulling a reverse gear. IMHO
Disconnect their breath means disconnect AWARENESS. and almost one can predict those who train this way will STOP or Hold breathing while execute a strike or resisting a strike. IMHHHHHO.
And there is NO JING can be produced with this type of disconnection/unAWAREN/holding/stop breathing type of practice. The most this type of practice is a burst of power and after that burst of power is totally weakness while trying to restoring the fragmented body/breathing/and mind. IMHO
Many martial arts most notably Karate connect their breathing with their techniques (kiah), what this does is actually make you more tired and winded. -----
IMHO,
that is because the breathing, body,… and technics doesnt RESONANCE all in unity.
The Goal is manifesting a holistic integration syncronized Resonace to generate the force. (notice it said power instead of Jing here)
The problem is in general one may “think” one “knows” what to do, but infact one’s “think” or mental speculation/derivation has no clue how to unify every components to manifest a unity Resonance.
In the first section of the Sui Lum Tao the concentration is on the breathing, just breath normally (abdomen breathing) and just perform the technique i.e. Tan, whu, fook, huen, dai jueng, normally.-------
IMHO,
Breathing Normally is not abdoment breathing. What is abdoment breathing there are different type of abdoment breathing. That needs to be clear about. otherwise, it is just MENTAL seculation and we have no idea what is breathing is about. and
that is not good for health and not good for the art. IMHHHHHO
Keep practicing -----
IMHO
The buddhist said, " if the direction is correct, keep walking". Notice that it doesnt just said Keep Practicing. One has to know the correct direction.
, you’re not going to get there overnight! -------
IMHO
True.
however, I can keep walking for 40 years and get no where with no direction.
Also, make sure your mechanics are right. Most people use a lot of muscles that aren’t needed. ------
Excellent , That is very true!
keep practicing and think about it while doing so. -----
IMHO, Thinking is not equal to KNOW about Breathing. Thinking can only work when One has experience about the subject. Thus, Thinking about something one has no experience can yield any kind of answer or ideas and who knows what is reality? IMHO
You have to be able to deliver enough power to do the job, yet be soft enough in the shoulders at the same time to be deflected if you come into contact. only then will you come to a point of feeling that you will be able to react to. In my opinion you should do a lot of chain punches as well as using the wall bag at an extremely close distance to help you develop the elbow force necessary to become a comprehensive WT/WC practitioner.-----
Great answer, however it still doesnt said much about Breathing. But lots of Thinking. and Thinking might not solve the issue. IMHO.
Unlike some other arts, in WCK you breathe normally when you a technique, including chain-punching. If you’re breathing normally (which might not actually be ‘normal’ based on whatever breathing practice you’re doing in your training… but it will at least be regular, I digress…) then you don’t get out of breath.--------skb
What is a NORMAL breathing?
What is the Breathing needed to do the Job?
What is the breathing practice practice and trying to achieve?
Sorry if I sound too serious
Sorry if I sound too serious in my post!
But this is a very very very importand subject. Great that so many join this discussion and certainly everyone’s ideas is appreciated.
I am just praying devil’s advocate here. 
Your awareness is found in the correct storage of breath not in its in and out of the mouth, awareness is also found in relaxation, the only way to conserve the energy needed for awareness is to disconnect the breathing fro m the hands.
you are entitled to that opinion, but that has not been my experiance neither the experiance of my Sifu who has been practicing Wing Chun for 50 years. Infact since I have practiced this type of breathing my Wing chun has gotten stronger, primeraly through the conservation of energy, which has meant that I have not had to restore anything, the breathing is in unity with the body, but that hands are seperate from the body, and simply utilise the power of the stance to achive their aims. If you connect the arms to the stance your centre of gravity can be more easily disrupted. This is part of the purpose of the Chum Kui to teach you how to keep the arms seperate but still maintain coordination with the body. Its not that there is not unity, but the name unity indicates seperate componants working together for a common purpose.
note what I said about unity
Tell a small child that abdomen breathing is not normal! Abdominal breathing is naturally normal, this is how we breathed once upon a time, before we got lazy and started to breath from the top of our lungs.
you are entitled to that opinion, but that has not been my experiance neither the experiance of my Sifu who has been practicing Wing Chun for 50 years.
Appeal to authority and anecdotal evidence.
My lineage (Spain - Cheung - Yip Man - …) holds that SLT has definite breathing cadences coordinated with the movements. These are not harsh and explosive, like your straw man image of karate, but smooth and not forced. Often a single exhalation accompanies several techniques.
I have been around the block too, and some of the people I have learned from have been in the game as long as your Sifu. Opinions vary (obviously).
Sports science in a number of disciplines has it that coordination of the breath with movement is essential for power generation and injury avoidance. WC tradition does not trump physiological science.
Just make sure you exhale and relax when taking a body shot.
note what I said about unity
I did. It sounds like you’re trying to have a bet each way, but it’s hard to say exactly what your point was.
Thinking is not equal to KNOW about Breathing. Thinking can only work when One has experience about the subject. Thus, Thinking about something one has no experience can yield any kind of answer or ideas and who knows what is reality? IMHO
More Hendrik doublespeak. Some of us have 50 odd years experience with breathing. You’re taking something simple and surrounding it with new age metaphysical rubbish, as usual.
I would have to say that I disagree with this statement. When punching you should breath out, short and fast, at the “point of contact” this aides timing as well allowing your body to tense at the right moment.
By just “breathing normally” while you are punching results in more of a sloppy looking hammer type punch, where the focus is “circular” instead of straight.
Tell a small child that abdomen breathing is not normal! Abdominal breathing is naturally normal, this is how we breathed once upon a time, before we got lazy and started to breath from the top of our lungs. -------
Since one is no longer a child. So what is a normal breathing? what is an abdomen breathing?
You know, I hope that it is hendrik’s doublespeak.
However, similar to breathing, Thinking is something simple but after 40 years or even more experience some still can’t figure out what is what.
You know . it is not hendrik who post your qout.
You know . it is not hendrik who post your qout.
and
you might want to share with us hot to breath out, short and fast? IE how to you manage the breathing via which part of your body?
You know . it is not hendrik who post the post you are qouting.
and
you might want to share with us hot to breath out, short and fast? IE how to you manage the breathing via which part of your body?
Ahhh o.k correction this was a quote from “SBK - Sekabin” … my apologies Hendrik.
Tighten you abdominals on the short sharp breath out, when reaching the point of contact which should be 2-3" inches beyond the surface of ones body when striking or punching.
Hendrik is right on about the breathing, however, the correct breathing won’t come overnight either. Like almost everything in WC, you have to spend a lot of time with things before they really work right. YGKYM is a prime example, most people work at it for a little bit, then decide it doesn’t work and decide to adopt some other type of footwork because they don’t trust it. You have to breathe using the diaphragm, not the chest. You need some good instruction on some of this stuff and more practice.
fiamacho
“By just “breathing normally” while you are punching results in more of a sloppy looking hammer type punch, where the focus is “circular” instead of straight.”
your type of breathing should not affect the line of your punch.