Vegan/Vegetarian?

[Sevan]

raw meat???

okies i’ve had raw meat in sushi, but this is little wierd…

now one thing, in Deuteronomy that your not supposed to eat the blood, for the life is in blood.

now how would one have meat raw without having blood in it??

another thing we have to worry bout is parasites and diseases, bacause even ORGANIC meats are prone to PARASITES & such.
pork is increadibly prone to diseases and such…

now how bout that one?

btw, i’m not intending on being antagonistic, but have major questions on what you just said.

[David]

David has entered the building

I love vegan posts because I’m an annoying born-again vegan. It’s 10 months since I started and I love it. St. Francis of Assisi - eat my shorts.

Xebsball - I saw a documentary on the Living on Light. The woman at the head of it has a daughter and the daughter said on camera that her mum was always eating - even mars bars. Complete rubbish, basically. I was a believer until I heard her and her daughter speak. She’s like Oroboros the snake that eats itself - she has her head up her a55 and eats all the time.

Fish: the only essential food you find in fish is a plant protein that they get from lower in the food chain from seaweed and kelp. So you can get it fresh from the source rather than getting something chewed already by a fish, of all things!

To the original question - I’m having a hard time keeping my weight down as a vegan because of an addiction to nuts. Apart from a slight loosening around the middle (Christ, it’s hit me that I am in my 30’s 8-| ), I’m full of colour (or color) and getting stronger in the normal way.

I know of one kungfu master who’s been vegan over 8 years.

I’d eat meat in an emergency and if I had killed someone and needed to dispose of them {burp}. Plants are loaded with everything you need. So, I need to eat more? ****, I hate lots of big meals

One thing about plants is that the goodness in them isn’t restricted to what you compare it to in meat. Animals strip out half (whatever percentage) of the goodness to use in metabolism so when you eat the meat you’re getting low grade benefits. Also, plant diseases don’t translate to humans, AFAIK which is becoming more and more interesting to more and more frightened ‘cattle’ consumers.

Vegansim is the diet of the future. I am one of the chosen. Lettuce be united.

[Spark]

Originally posted by ElPietro
[B]

I would love for you to show me this proof. Soy in no way is superior. [/B]

Maybe not superior. But it is a FACT that the Aztecs diet was comprised mainly of corn (tortillas) and beans (soy is a bean) and that was all they ate and it was a complete protein for their diets.

Also sorry I can’t find the name, but there was a Mr. Universe in the 80’s I believe who was vegan.

[Spark]

His name was Bill Pearl just in case someone out there actually wants to call me on that one.

[Justa_Man]

I don’t know what Deuteronomy is, but blood is fine. There are people who drink cow’s blood mixed with raw cow’s milk. From a raw food perspective, drinking the blood helps vitalize your blood. Eating an organ, brings health to the corresponding organ in you.

Everything/one is prone to parasites and bacteria. They’ve been here as long as we have. Why are people so nervous about them these days? Because the food they are eating (cooked, enriched, processed, fake) is making their body weaker and now these parasites, bacteria, atc, are finding great terrain to thrive in.
It’s all Pasteur’s fault. He said bacteria is bad and the world went with it. Check out one of his peers, Duchamp. He said it’s not the bacteria or disease, but the terrain that is the problem. Pasteur even said Duchamp was right, but only after his bacteria theory came out and the world of medicine realized the money that could be made from pharmaceuticals, so they ignored Duchamp and his theory. Cooked foods make for unhealthy terrain. Raw food does not.
In short, from a raw food persepctive, you’ll get sick, have a bacterial infection, virul infection, if your body has a need to clean itself out. Bacteria and the like all help make us healthy, all help clean or system. Drugs kill the bacteria, that was originally meant to clean us out, and we are left with an unhealthy terrain that will invite more bacteria. If you are on a raw food diet, and you get sick, and you let the sickness run it’s course, you will feel better than you did before you got sick. I’ve seen it happen and had it happen to me. I know of people that went through spinal menengitis MORE THAN ONCE, didn’t go to a hospital, stuck with their raw food diet and fully recovered, feeling better than they did before they got sick!

Read the book, We Want to Live, if you want to learn more.
No disrespect, but I’m so happy Veganism isn’t going to be part of my future.

[David]

JustaMan - can you elaborate on what you are referring to as “terrain”, please? I know terrain as the earth/land either literally or figuratively but can’t make sense of what you mean by it…

I looked up Duchamp on the web and got a couple of references to topology but not much.

Bacteria: I can’t live without it

Milk: milk is BAD. It’s a hormone-controlled secretion for infants and nature knows it’s a thing to be weaned from. It’s because you don’t see the point in plants that you have to stay sucking teats to stay alive.

Anyway, I’m interested in what you said about Duchamp.

[Justa_Man]

terrain meaning the condition in your body. for example, if you don’t circulate your chi fully in the body, then there are parts of it that will be ‘underfed’. these ‘underfed’ areas become terrain that bacteria, viruses, etc will be attracted to because of the state of unhealth in that area. any clearer? or if you eat alot of fried foods and your colon gets all clogged up with that stuff. that’s unhealthy terrain where UNfriendly bacteria will set up the party tent.
and it’s bechamp, not duchamp. I think i got duchamp from stand by me! woops! sorry man.
raw cow’s milk is not bad man. i drink about 2 gallons a week and have NO problems with mucus or any of that ‘lactose intolerant’ biz. plus, milk blended with a spoon of raw honey is a gift from the gods. straight up. i do see the point in plants. most definitly. they are a key part of my diet, as meat and fat is. i also drink half a quart of fresh squeezed, green veggie juice a day. greens are great but they do not supply the whole answer.
look, i know the meat thing is a far out idea. i don’t expect anyone to think i’m all that sane for recommending it. it’s why i won’t even begin to suggest people eat raw butter, and lot’s of it. just read We Want To Live and draw your own conclusion. there is another great book called Blatent Raw Foodist Propaganda that drops some good facts about raw food and it’s insane benefits. read about Pottenger’s Cats. the proof is in the pudding.
happy reading.

[David]

Thanks for responding Justaman. Not sure if I’ll buy the recommended book (would you buy my recommended vegan book..?) but I will look into the Bechamp thing. I was thinking of the feeling-better-after-serious-illness thing overnight and remembered reading an article just the other day about organic veggies. It’s not long but you’ll get the point.

Organic Food Might Reduce Heart Attacks

On milk, until going vegan I drank several cows a day. The vegan health issues with milk are numerous. Assuming you’re not drinking disease or vetinary drugs the calcium in milk causes your body problems because there’s too much of it. The bones lose strength over time and wear out. Osteoperosis can result though that’s mainly something women get. Only people who consume dairy products suffer like that.

You have no idea how character-building it is to not eat pizza Man, is it hard!

[Mr_Punch]

Phew

Thanks Eddie, Spark (yo man, how ya doin’?), David. I read this thread a coupla days ago and nearly blew my stack : fortunately didn’t have time to reply.

Thanks Justaman, LOL. Good luck with your diet. I think the key really is about bioindividuality, but I’d be very surprised if you follow the diet I suppose you follow, if you live past about 50. Too much completely raw food can give you too much fibre. Fibre is, by its nature indigestible and abrasive, and too much will probably tear your colon like you’ve been eating wire-wool. Cave men haven’t been around for some time, and when they were they didn’t live very long for a number of reasons.

I was a strict vegan for 10 years or so. Perfectly healthy, thank you. No health problems at all. Training all the time. Before then I was strict vegetarian for about 5 years. Perfectly healthy thank you.

ElPietro, when I started I was a little rabid about the subject, but I was only 14, so nobody listened anyway :rolleyes: ! A lot of this was a response to often vehement, ignorant and personal attacks from omnivores: it always seemed to be open season on vegetarians… so many people would say “But you’re wearing leather shoes…” , “How can you tell me I shouldn’t be eating meat?” (when I had just said I was a vegetarian!). I haven’t got on my high horse about the diet thing for a long time, but suffice it to say I firmly believe IMHOH (in my heart of hearts) that if you fed all of the omnivourous people in the world to each other the world would be a cleaner, more peaceful, and more resource-friendly place .

Back to the original question Sevan. I’m sorry, but I’m skinny as a rake too, but I have tone, and all of my muscles work more than sufficiently for what I need them to do. I am lightly tanned. Everybody says I look very healthy (this is EVERYBODY, it’s quite boring!). My skin is very dry, but that’s because I live in Tokyo. I know everyone with any interest in this kind of thing has their own dietary bible, and that most of these are half-full of it, but my recommended reading is ‘Optimum Sports Nutrition’ by Michael Colgan. He’s not a veggie, but his job is researching athletes’ diets. His conclusions come down quite heavily on the side of cutting down both meat and fish. He is not selling anything, and he has logical criticisms of bad food! I you want some friendly specific dietary advice, send me a private or just reply here. But basically I suggest you do a lot of reading (a lot of nutritionists contradict each other), and try it for a bit to see how it goes. Bear in mind it’ll probably take 6 months or so to show through any health changes.

Slightly OT but related (and I’m not being a smart A, unless the answer bears out what I think! ): can anyone tell me what the Shaolin monks and Japanese Zen monks REALLY ate/eat?

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by Spark
[B]

Maybe not superior. But it is a FACT that the Aztecs diet was comprised mainly of corn (tortillas) and beans (soy is a bean) and that was all they ate and it was a complete protein for their diets.

Also sorry I can’t find the name, but there was a Mr. Universe in the 80’s I believe who was vegan. [/B]

Not sure what the Aztecs eating habits have to do with anything. I respect Bill Pearl but never heard anything about him being a vegan, he doesn’t mention it in his book either, but regardless that’s not very relevant. I would just like some science on why eating only vegetables is superior to eating veggies and meat. Also, anything that explains why soy protein is better than protein from bovine sources.

I honestly don’t care what people’s eating habits are…just don’t like it if they tell others their eating habits are superior but have no research to provide to back up that statement. Because others do it isn’t good enough. Still waiting…

[Mr_Punch]

I honestly don’t care what people’s eating habits are…just don’t like it if they tell others their eating habits are superior but have no research to provide to back up that statement.

Ditto. This is what omnivores have been trying to spin on me for years!

Because others do it isn’t good enough. Still waiting…

I’m afraid I’m not a nutritionist, so I’ve only researched it by reading other people’s books . As I said, try Michael Colgan’s. He’s not a vegetarian and the book is interesting. It’s a bit big or I’d try to summarize it for you!

His suggested regime is a lot stricter than most people’s, but it’s interesting anyway if you’re interested in sport nutrition, and resource use, come to that.

[Justa_Man]

david, i won’t buy your book, but only because i was a vegan for 5 years, so i feel like i know that path already.
as for milk, were you drinking pasteurized and ****genized milk or raw milk? i’ve heard all the problems you listed as coming from the milk that is pasteurized and ****genized. i’ve never heard of any of these problems coming from raw cow’s milk.
mat, i really don’t eat that many fiber rich foods. let’s see, the only thing that supllies any decent amount of fiber is my salads, and my apples…maybe the occasional dates i eat. that’s it though. my diet consists of milk (raw), eggs (organic, free range, **** laid), beef (organic), butter (raw), and avacados and coconut cream (both raw, organic). these aren’t really food known for their fiber. that’s funny about what you say, cuz i think that if i can stick to this diet i’ll see 100 years (and be in good condition when i get there).
cave men aside, there are many tribes of peoples that, today, live on raw food diets (including meat and dairy) and have none of the diseases that plague our sophisticated society.
i really hope some of yall check the 2 books i mentioned.
when little chinamen came to the western world to teach martial arts, maaad people thought they were nuts to think their skinny, old-man frames would be any match for the larger, more muscular
breeds of men of the western hemisphere. the only way to prove it was when they crossed hands. the only way i can show you some actual proof is by showing you these books that are loaded with info. every book you read, whether you agree with it or not, helps shape and strengthen your opinion on what you believe. take a chance. spend $20 and learn about what this wackjob is saying. i’m not going to post essays of info on the subject cuz i don’t have that kind of time for it. please, read the books.

[Spark]

Originally posted by ElPietro
[B]

Not sure what the Aztecs eating habits have to do with anything. I respect Bill Pearl but never heard anything about him being a vegan, he doesn’t mention it in his book either, but regardless that’s not very relevant. I would just like some science on why eating only vegetables is superior to eating veggies and meat. Also, anything that explains why soy protein is better than protein from bovine sources.

I honestly don’t care what people’s eating habits are…just don’t like it if they tell others their eating habits are superior but have no research to provide to back up that statement. Because others do it isn’t good enough. Still waiting… [/B]

Sorry ElPietro if I was being obscure. You said you wanted proof about a soy diet being superior (I think). I was merely showing you how an entire civilization’s diet was based upon beans and corn and that was a complete protein for their diets. If you’ve done any research or read about the Aztecs, you’d know they weren’t sickly little skinny men.

I think it’s funny that you say that veggies are the one acting superior! Everywhere I go, once people find out i’m a veggie, they think i’m a freak of nature, followed by 20 questions on how I’ve managed to survive all these years.

ANyhow, i’ll just state that I think it’s better for you to eat vegetables than it is meat and you can find all the proteins you need without ever consuming an animal. It has nothing to do with superiority, it has everything to do with health, and the well being of yourself and the planet!

And no i’m not a hippie!!!

[Sevan]

thanks

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions all,

I’ll for sure review thoroughly all that was said and see how goes…

[prana]

Re: Phew

Originally posted by Mat

Slightly OT but related (and I’m not being a smart A, unless the answer bears out what I think! ): can anyone tell me what the Shaolin monks and Japanese Zen monks REALLY ate/eat?

Many Taoists I know are strong vegetarians (vegans) and includes not eating the 4 pungeant foods such as garlic & onions. Others eat meat, but I am not sure which is which, anyone would like to add ? They believe people who cultivate samadhi with these pungeant foods attracts attention of beings of the other world.

Pure Buddhists practise are different, but I shant share.

[Sevan]

why not?

Prana: Why you dont share?

more info always cool… also i like to hear others opinions.

[prana]

Sevan it is off topic, and not asked.

Besides, I already have a bad case of verbal diarrhoea.

edit : I guess it is not that off-topic. So here are some thoughts, you choose your path.
Beggars can’t be choosers, food given should not be wasted. Thou shall not kill. So clearly a middle ground is taken. Can you guess ?

peace

[ElPietro]

Well since everyone likes to make claims based on what was, or what people say or think, and haven’t produced any kind of interesting research to back anything up I thought I’d post some reading material for you all.

General Article with good science and a multitude of references:

http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_143soy.html

A very in-depth site with many articles and reading material on virtually all aspects of soy. Excellent references and peer reviewed studies:

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

Let me just once again clarify my point that I truly could care less what you decide, as long as you do not influence those that are seeking answers without at least providing good reason. If I’m right and someone takes my advice because they’ve read some info or science I’ve posted that’s great. But if I said something that someone took to heart and I had just said it because I believed it and didn’t have any form of research to back up what I say then that would be a bad thing. I’m showing people what I’ve read and believe and allowing them to make an informed decision. Just saying something is good because you do it is unacceptable, considering many people could come here and, theoretically, could make life changing eating habits.

[ElPietro]

Oh and here’s a few more for you to look at. All from valid sources. So if you are truly interested in this topic feel free to read it.

http://www.johnleemd.net/articles/soy-01.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9464451&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=2338464&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=2338464&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

Please feel free to read these as well…although I doubt any of you truly will, but just remember that if you post something and debate with me try to do some research as I will on my end. I enjoy being proven wrong when possible, but I hate wasting my time…

[Star_Of_The_Sea]

I’ve been vegan for ten years. Some links to vegan strength training sites:

http://www.vegans.free-online.co.uk/vbbF.htm

http://www.vegsource.com/articles/mahler_weightlift.htm

http://www.vegsource.com/articles/mahler_weightlift2.htm