Unprofessional martial arts schools--what does everyone think??

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

First,

I’m not so sensitive that I’m super offended or anything like that. BUT…as a representitive of a school..and more particularly a style of kung fu, I believe that an instructor or a contact person for that school should behave in a professional manner..

With that said..there is a school of kung fu(a fairly well known style) where I live that I wanted to study at. The forms and applications looked impressive when I peered my head into the classroom. So..when the class ended..I approached one of the students who was leaving(the sifu had 3-4 students who wanted to ask him questions..and I didn’t have alot of time to wait) and asked them about fee schedules, days of week they met,etc.(all the pertinent info). The student then gave me the contact info of a student who was designated the representative of the style for that state(the school has branches in a few different states).

So…I e-mailed this person on 3 separate occasions to ask the usual series of questions. I didn’t get a single response! Gee..surely someone who represents an organization which prides itself on such a long history of teaching this style of kf (known for it’s animal claw techniques) would at minimum send me an e-mail back right? And even if they were not accepting other students at my time of inquiry..they’d at least say “Sorry but we are not accepting other students at this time”..right? Wrong on both counts!

I thought “hmm..maybe the guy just doesn’t read his e-mail”. So, I go to the school again and wait patiently outside till the class is over. I peer my head in and say “excuse me sir..are you the sifu?”. And he says “Ha..no..I wish”. So I say “I see..could you tell me if your school is accepting further students?” so he goes..“no”. I say " do you have an idea on when that could change" and he says “no..I don’t..we have a certain format here”.

So I say “could you tell me how much the sifu normally charges for lessons, so I can have an idea if and when you begin accepting other students again?”.

His answer? “I’m not going to discuss that”..and very sternly I might add! It was almost as if he took it like I was questioning him on the witness stand.

Let me tell you..I’ve e-mailed and called sifus/masters/grandmasters of a diversity of different styles(some with some very sizable organizations.).and NONE of them were so unprofessional and smug. At minimum, I always got either a reply to my e-mail or a call and my question was usually answered.

2

Without knowing what’s going on in the school, I would guess they are having management problems…All schools I’ve had experience with have a front desk or someone there who can help you.

It’s sounds to me that you have, as of yet, spoken to anyone in charge and there doesn’t seem to be anyone there willing to accept responsiblity for the management. Or, who knows, maybe the guy you talked to did at one time try to take some responsibility and caught S from the owner for doing so.

This doesn’t make is a bad school just one that is poorly run. It you really want to attend go back find a student who looks like he/she has been there for a while and ask them what is going on.

3

I am not suggesting this is the best business model for western society, but in Japan if you approach a ko-ryu about studying they will tell you they aren’t taking students, aren’t interested in students and you couldn’t afford the tuition, usually all in the same breath…

4

[QUOTE=lkfmdc;887406]I am not suggesting this is the best business model for western society, but in Japan if you approach a ko-ryu about studying they will tell you they aren’t taking students, aren’t interested in students and you couldn’t afford the tuition, usually all in the same breath…[/QUOTE]

My Sigung’s teacher tells every white person that…:smiley:

5

who let you join this forum?

I am personally outraged that you have questions!

:stuck_out_tongue:

6

Not normal in my experience.

Then again my sifu rarely turns away a paying student.

7

Is this an actual brick and mortar school or just someone teaching as a club? Either way, it is pretty rude and does not show the true martial arts spirit. I would simply avoid this place and move on. It sounds like they have some pretty serious issues. Be well.

8

Professional

[QUOTE=LaterthanNever;887401]First,

I’m not so sensitive that I’m super offended or anything like that. BUT…as a representitive of a school..and more particularly a style of kung fu, I believe that an instructor or a contact person for that school should behave in a professional manner..

…Let me tell you..I’ve e-mailed and called sifus/masters/grandmasters of a diversity of different styles(some with some very sizable organizations.).and NONE of them were so unprofessional and smug. …[/QUOTE]

This is a reoccurring theme here on KFO, professional v non-professional schools or commercial v non-commercial schools.

Not everybody is professional. Not all styles are structured the same. There are traditional family structures and pay per grade and everything between. Even in non commercial schools, quite often there is money floating around, you can bet.

Some teachers are half-assed former students of somebody, some are true masters in their own right. Some take token payment based upon means, some accept tithe in red packets at ceremonies, some have financial Bai See, some have ceremonial. Some just donate their time for the love of the art and community, believe it or not.

Some are wholesome professionals, others come from darker places. Very dark - don’t like light, geddit?

Lets assume that this was the way the school conducted its business on purpose.

I know a number of Chinese here who won’t take white students just casually. They teach sons of family and friends, referees, the like. They don’t dislike white students, its just a practicality thing. 1 in 10 stays. All kinds of wierd western values about kung fu, questions, language barriers maybe… Just too distracting. Of course, the right kind of person can overcome these barriers of inconvenience.

Deal with the person, not the business, and you might have more success next time.

Non commercial schools don’t care about your consumers rights. They don’t care if you come back. They only care if you make them care by working hard, if its a legit school.

Do you know about TCMA family structure? Sifu, biggest brother, big brothers, little brothers (and all the sisters, uncles, grandfathers, etc, etc)?

If you knew what the style was called, it might tell us a little more about the possible culture around the place. Was it in its own Kwoon- large or small , or a public hall, or ?

Did they have marketing materials on display?

Just my humble opinion, but non-commercial with full lineage master, is just about the best you can ever hope to find if you want a full TCMA experience.

But, God forbid! Don’t go firing questions at him about lineage! LOL

9

student… teacher… is there a difference?

10

Maybe you’re asking the wrong questions, its like asking a girl her favorite positions on the first date…perhaps they like to be wined or whined and dined first. Secondly remember that most martial art schools are small businesses and are not necessarily run like smart businesses. Third, because of that for many instructors this is there second job, in addition to their primary job and family responsibilities…so they assign a senior student to handle the biz.

You are not alone with this type of experience, I spent a long time researching, visiting local schools before trying several out…some of my worst first impressions came by either highly reputable schools or instructors…as mentioned some Japanese schools, the instructor won’t even talk to you until you’ve been there a while. At another school, the Sensei said he didn’t do Kumite because he’d lose his students…of course he lost me then and there. At my CLF school, I actually interacted more with the Senior Student rather than the Sifu and had an enjoyable experience.

If you like the caliber of the instruction at this school, I’d give them another chance, someone maybe on vacation, an email may have been sent to a spam folder…get there early and speak to the Sifu maybe he/she isn’t aware of the type of greeting you received. Sometimes things are worth waiting for. Go with your instinct, Grasshopper. there maybe the perfect school for you just around the corner.

11

I am possibly going to be in the market for a new school soon.

My current school is great, best I’ve ever been to in about 16 years of involvement in various martial arts… god… 16 years… has it been that long…

Anyway, I just got an interview for a job out west and the interview was based on performance on a test and there are actually something in the range of 11 or 12 positions open so my chances of getting a job is good. Now my sifu is in London so if I move to Prince George than, regardless of how much I prefer my current sifu I will have to be looking for a new school.

When I do here is what I will be looking for:

  1. Fighting - preferrably daily.

I go to the kwoon I get to spar. It’s as simple as that. Usually, these days, it’s submission wrestling as that is what is interesting me lately. If it’s not than it’s boxing or kick boxing or fencing… on a couple of occasions we even did full MMA sparring. I enjoy sparring. It’s my favorite part of martial arts, hands down. If I go to a school and it’s all dancing through a bunch of forms, no thanks, I’m out the dor.

  1. An approachable sifu / sensei.

If the instructor doesn’t care enough about new business to at least talk to walk-ins than I am not so sure that he’ll be there a year later still teaching.

  1. A sifu / sensei who can actually teach me something.

I don’t care about belts. If I go to class and it’s not the same style I was in before and the guy says “put on a white belt” that’s fine by me. But I do care about getting a good tuition. If the instructor refuses to teach me anything other than how to stand in Ma Bu for six months or if the instructor just doesn’t have enough experience to teach me anything I don’t already know than bye bye.

  1. A sifu / sensei who speaks english or mandarin.

Language barriers suck.

  1. Not TKD.

I hate TKD. :stuck_out_tongue:

12

"Is this an actual brick and mortar school or just someone teaching as a club? "

It’s just a rented room in a brick building in a community center. But when you go to the link–there is no mention of “we are not accepting other students”..it’s misleading to the general public.

“Either way, it is pretty rude and does not show the true martial arts spirit.”

Yes.

13

Actually, the true “martial arts spirit” would be to kick you in the groin and call you a pansy for falling.

14

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;887681]Actually, the true “martial arts spirit” would be to kick you in the groin and call you a pansy for falling.[/QUOTE]this action most likely gave rise to the first notions of vengence and revenge…

15

Uki knows this because of his PHD in archaeology, philosophy, history or sociology…

Oh wait… he is just a crank with no formal education of note.

16

simon, I believe you waste too much time trying to bend the unbendable. :slight_smile:

between uki and 1bad65 you have wasted a lot of time typing.

There are better conversations to be had for sure!

17

[QUOTE=uki;887795]this action most likely gave rise to the first notions of vengence and revenge…[/QUOTE]

Well, it certainly didn’t give RISE to anythign else !
LOL !

18

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;887984]
between uki and 1bad65 you have wasted a lot of time typing.
[/quote]

Mission accomplished!

There are better conversations to be had for sure!

And I participate in those too.

But my more involved conversations with you, becca, sanjuro ronin, IKFMDC, Gene, zenshiite and a host of other people who aren’t 1bad65 or uki fail to waste anywhere near enough time.

I’m tied to a desk.

At work I can access a grand total of 2 non-work related websites due to the filter in place.

This one and wikipedia.

If I have downtime at work (and I often do, it’s the nature of the work) that means I’m either reading random stuff on wikipedia or I’m wasting time here.

1bad65 and uki serve a valuable function…

Helping me waste my time.

And I thank them for that.

They are eceptionally efficient time wasters.

19

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;887984]between uki and 1bad65 you have wasted a lot of time typing.[/quote]and this of course is coming from someone with 10,000+ posts…

There are better conversations to be had for sure!
yet you cannot refrain from somehow being involved…

20

Uki… you have been on the forum for 1 year and your post count is over 500… and has been rising exponentially.

True fact:

When Kung Fu magazine started up the website David Jameson had already been there for a year…

It’s true.