tao te ching

Nei Jia: the Qigong and Taijiquan Forum Qigong and Meditation
21

[QUOTE=Skip J.;999420]Thank you Hendrik;

The story of GM Chen Man-Ching is very cool!

I am a “practitioner” of affirmations for stress relief and relaxation for over 30 years.
The reason I will not teach this, even in my own family is because it it so very powerful, it is dangerous. I have seen it used on subjects for quitting smoking and weight loss. Some of the weight loss folks couldn’t start eating again and became anorexic (sp?).[/QUOTE]

Skip,

In the same era with GM Chen, there is another person who is very famous cure himself from TBC within 100 days via meditaion. This person’s name is Chiang Ciao-Wei who later teaching his meditation method.

At the time of GM Chen and GM Chiang, What Western specialist expert to endose the old TCM practice? none.

But these GM follow the old practice of get into the silence and let the body taking care of itself. and it works.

Great to know you practice affirmation.

In my experience,
The Silence practice is one level deeper then the affirmation because it first scan to release or letting go the energy hold inside ; after the clean up, if one decide to manifest then affirm what one intended to create.

one needs to enter the silence or beingness to let go the hold on. if one cover the hold on with affirmation, that will become a struggle and the result will be mixed or depend on the intensity of the will. However, when enter into the silence, let go becomes effortless because the NON attachement is the default of the beingness.

Thus, this is what the Dao De Jing said:

Beyond could be identifying with mind is the origin of heaven and earth.

This means one needs to go beyond the mind. Mind is a creation machine, one needs to go beyond the mind to be “beingness” or the origin. Mind doesnt know Beingness because Beingnes is “be” and beyond " know, aware, think, identifying…"

able to identify with mind is the source give birth to millions of things.

This means all things are created with mind.

Thus, being in boundless, the intention to let go the mind and enter into the boundless is to observe the wonderful beyond creation.
This means dropping the mind one will “be” the wonderful beyond creation.

Or as in the west said, Let Go and Let God “Be”.

focus on limits/bounday, the intention of focus the mind is to observe the creation/manifestation.

focus the mind and creation/manifestation begun, for mind is the machine to create.

Both Being in boundless and focus the mind, they are from the same source although human using different identity/terms to describe them. They are from the same source means non dual.

This means, to be totally free, one needs to be in non dual. and to be in non dual means no attachement to either beings or mind, for one is the “body” and one is the " application" of the body. Similar to a coin with two faces. To be free, liberate, “be” with the Dao, one doesnt make discrimination of the two, one doesnt attached to both.

just some thougths to share.

22

[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;999425]LOL, you just described yourself to a tee![/QUOTE]

I totally approve of your opinion.

23

The beauty of Dao.

------- From the song of enligthement ------

LET THE FOUR ELEMENTS GO, DO NOT GRASP AT THEM.

THE NATURE OF STILL QUIESCENCE ACCORDS WITH DRINKING AND EATING.

ALL ACTIVITIES ARE IMPERMANENT; EVERYTHING IS EMPTY.

THAT IS THE GREAT AND PERFECT ENLIGHTENMENT OF THE THUS COME ONE.

Practice and be free and write your own Dao De Jing.

24

[QUOTE=Hendrik;999336]With this type of logic, it said alots about your mind pattern isnt it?

Best Wishes and hope somedays you realize.[/QUOTE]

Since you are only specubating, your opinion is worthless!

[QUOTE=Hendrik;999370]when one cant discuss the subject with confident, that is where personal attack starts.[/QUOTE]

Which is worse, the direct expression of one’s disgust with another person, or YOUR poorly veiled passive/aggressive insults?

[QUOTE=Hendrik;999429]I totally approve of your opinion.[/QUOTE]

NO ONE cares about your approval, NO ONE needs your approval, or that of your master:rolleyes:, who has clearly led you into deeper attachment!

25

[QUOTE=Hendrik;999432]The beauty of Dao.

------- From the song of enligthement ------

LET THE FOUR ELEMENTS GO, DO NOT GRASP AT THEM.

THE NATURE OF STILL QUIESCENCE ACCORDS WITH DRINKING AND EATING.

ALL ACTIVITIES ARE IMPERMANENT; EVERYTHING IS EMPTY.

THAT IS THE GREAT AND PERFECT ENLIGHTENMENT OF THE THUS COME ONE.

Practice and be free and write your own Dao De Jing.[/QUOTE]

It is unfortunate you continue to write/quote speculative translations!

Aren’t you the one who said:

[QUOTE=Hendrik;999432]…there is no needs for 100000 translation and causing misleading. [/QUOTE]

Which means you continue to mislead people even while criticizing others for writing translations.

Why do you think it is that everyone else can see your hypocrisy and yet you are blind to it?

Perhaps it is your own “spinning dream fantasy rainbow mind” that creates your confusion and causes you to project that confusion onto others!

26

[QUOTE=Hendrik;999429]I totally approve of your opinion.[/QUOTE]
why can’t you just be honest? it’s CLEARLY APPARENT that you do not approve of my opinion - what you are doing here is called being DISMISSIVE of my opinion, and you KNOW that that is what you are doing; you do it constantly with others, usually at the point where you don’t have an argumentative leg to stand on - so resort to your “acceptance” tactic;

it’s lame, Hendrick, really, really lame;

man, at least I am being honest when I say I disagree with your opinion; you on the other hand lack the decency to be honorable and forthright in the way you comport yourself on here; and that is truly shameful;

shame on you, Hendrick; shame;

27

hahaha,

you both certainly hates me and will do anything to attack me.

Thanks for your help!

I always can make use of your attacks to fine tune my cultivation.

The question is not you or anyone, but can I enter into silence at will with any kind of attacks.
It is my own reincarnation which I need to break, you are just a reflection which I allow within my beingness. it is a good test to allow you to surface and see if I got disturb or I stay as it is.

Honestly, Thanks! Thanks! my good knowledge advisors.

Love Love!

28

[QUOTE=Hendrik;999484]hahaha,

you both certainly hates me and will do anything to attack me.

Thanks for your help!

I always can make use of your attacks to fine tune my cultivation.

The question is not you or anyone, but can I enter into silence at will with any kind of attacks.

Honestly, Thanks!

Love Love![/QUOTE]

Actually Hendrik if you think anyone hates you, you have WAY to big of a sense of self-importance!

We don’t care two cents about you. You are entertainment and part of the interplay of Tao with itself, which provides an opportunity to learn and grow if one has a bit of insight.

We interact with you because it is Dharma play, especially with self-important fools who criticize others for doing what they themselves do!

You are a walking joke and you do not recognize it. You play your passive/aggressive games and are ignorant of your own ignorance!

If it wasn’t fun we wouldn’t be wasting our time with you!:stuck_out_tongue:

P.S. It is good that you use our interactions to fine tune your cultivation, it requires A LOT of cultivation!

29

[QUOTE=Hendrik;999484]hahaha,

you both certainly hates me and will do anything to attack me. [/QUOTE]

Gollum? is that you?!?

[QUOTE=Hendrik;999484]Thanks for your help!

I always can make use of your attacks to fine tune my cultivation.

The question is not you or anyone, but can I enter into silence at will with any kind of attacks.

Honestly, Thanks![/QUOTE]
hey, you’re welcome! in fact, I for one ammore than happy to be able to continually help you enter into silence any time you feel the urge to post on the forum in the future; as such, I hope that from now on, anytime you do have the desire to post again, that you think of my burning hatred for you, and that this will help you move yourself away from the computer and back to your meditation cushion for more fine tuning!
if you never post again, I will know that you have made good use of my hatred and turned it into profound silence - which means more karmic merit for me, yipeeee!!!

30

[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;999496]hey, you’re welcome! in fact, I for one ammore than happy to be able to continually help you enter into silence any time you feel the urge to post on the forum in the future; as such, I hope that from now on, anytime you do have the desire to post again, that you think of my burning hatred for you, and that this will help you move yourself away from the computer and back to your meditation cushion for more fine tuning!
if you never post again, I will know that you have made good use of my hatred and turned it into profound silence - which means more karmic merit for me, yipeeee!!![/QUOTE]

I wish I had as much burning hate as you so I could gain some karmic merit too!

I bet you can gain even more karmic merit if you shared it with others!

I also wish I was soooooo impotent…er…important that others hated me as much as we hate hendrik, ha ha!

Then it would motivate me to put others into their own eternal silence!!!

31

Or was it put myself into eternal silence?

I forget…but since the silence is not truly silent I guess it doesn’t matter!

32

what is silence?? i lost 70% of my hearing on my 9th birthday and in place of clairity, all i got was this damn eternal song in my ears… a never-ending ringing… like water rushing in a cave of crickets chirping… complete with the echo effect. this “silence” has been my constant companion and my personal teacher… because of personal insecurity while i was younger, i drew into myself like a turtle - shunning a social life because i felt “handicapped”, yet because of this, i was able to tap into myself, to tap into the vast resource of ones mind… i began doing everything i do all by myself - seeking and learning all i put my mind to. in this world, there are far more distractions than when the tao came to characters on paper, so many distractions that it’s nearly impossible for anyone in this modern age to comprehend. what i find interesting is that people like to fight and squabble over what is the correct way or the correct method of cultivation, but i tell you that the way that can be named is not the true way, therefore, all folks arguing for the way are merely chasing ghosts… i do not need anyone to show me the way, the way has revealed itself to me… no one can push me off my path because i am not on a path, i am simply on my way… this is the way of nature. just be. :slight_smile:

33

oh yeah…

[QUOTE=Hendrik;999428]Skip,

Great to know you practice affirmation.

In my experience,
The Silence practice is one level deeper then the affirmation because it first scan to release or letting go the energy hold inside ; after the clean up, if one decide to manifest then affirm what one intended to create.

one needs to enter the silence or beingness to let go the hold on. if one cover the hold on with affirmation, that will become a struggle and the result will be mixed or depend on the intensity of the will. However, when enter into the silence, let go becomes effortless because the NON attachement is the default of the beingness.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks Hendrik!

Ah yes, that is true… but as I said, I learned it western style… not TCM…

As western style is very close to self-hypnosis, because it is so powerful.. I will not teach it to others, even family. Maybe someday I can take and be trained in qi gong and then teach it after training.

So the affirmation I do and the silence beneath it are both of much less power than the traditional form you were trained in. I do see it though…

34

explains a lot

[QUOTE=uki;999557]what is silence?? i lost 70% of my hearing on my 9th birthday and in place of clairity, all i got was this damn eternal song in my ears… a never-ending ringing… like water rushing in a cave of crickets chirping… complete with the echo effect. this “silence” has been my constant companion and my personal teacher… because of personal insecurity while i was younger, i drew into myself like a turtle - shunning a social life because i felt “handicapped”, yet because of this, i was able to tap into myself, to tap into the vast resource of ones mind… i began doing everything i do all by myself - seeking and learning all i put my mind to. in this world, there are far more distractions than when the tao came to characters on paper, so many distractions that it’s nearly impossible for anyone in this modern age to comprehend. what i find interesting is that people like to fight and squabble over what is the correct way or the correct method of cultivation, but i tell you that the way that can be named is not the true way, therefore, all folks arguing for the way are merely chasing ghosts… i do not need anyone to show me the way, the way has revealed itself to me… no one can push me off my path because i am not on a path, i am simply on my way… this is the way of nature. just be. :)[/QUOTE]
Hey uki;

Thanks for that, you have no idea how close we think; even tho we traveled very different “paths” to get here… I can see your hardships were real, and mine were mostly not…

Well at least you don’t look like an old, fat, slow guy like me… but I see an old soul in you I think…

35

[QUOTE=Skip J.;999580]Thanks Hendrik!

Ah yes, that is true… but as I said, I learned it western style… not TCM…

As western style is very close to self-hypnosis, because it is so powerful.. I will not teach it to others, even family. Maybe someday I can take and be trained in qi gong and then teach it after training.

So the affirmation I do and the silence beneath it are both of much less power than the traditional form you were trained in. I do see it though…[/QUOTE]

Skip,

Thanks for sharing!

IMHO, I have learn both the east and west style. and for me, there actually are similar. and the only different is some process could get one deeper then other.

From what I was coached, silence needs to be totally effortless and light. one will feel the weight of a single thought as soon as that thought got brought up.

36

[QUOTE=Skip J.;999581]Hey uki;

Thanks for that, you have no idea how close we think; even tho we traveled very different “paths” to get here… I can see your hardships were real, and mine were mostly not…

Well at least you don’t look like an old, fat, slow guy like me… but I see an old soul in you I think…[/QUOTE]

IMHO,

it is all about how to return to our default state. However, we have pile up with all the junk, so it help to have some one who has done it to lead one back from those confusing layer and layer of junk.

37

[QUOTE=uki;999557]. i do not need anyone to show me the way, the way has revealed itself to me… no one can push me off my path because i am not on a path, i am simply on my way… this is the way of nature. just be. :)[/QUOTE]

Uki,

you certainly has some experience.

however, imho, you need to watch out for the above statement you made. because the “one” who made this statement is the problematic mind. this is an indication of an Doer exist. “me and my…etc”

IMHO
When one return to the silence or be , one becomes a witness not a doer. one watches this world similar to watching the movie, one will not identify one as the character in the movie and stuck within the movie.

Thus, being just be , there is no nature way, no my way, but just be because there is no mind needed no knowing needed no discrimination mechanism needed but just be. There one becomes intuitive.

just some thoughts.

38

[QUOTE=Hendrik;999630]Uki,

you certainly has some experience.

however, imho, you need to watch out for the above statement you made. because the “one” who made this statement is the problematic mind. this is an indication of an Doer exist. “me and my…etc”

IMHO
When one return to the silence or be , one becomes a witness not a doer. one watches this world similar to watching the movie, one will not identify one as the character in the movie and stuck within the movie.[/QUOTE]
lol, and “who” is the one making this statement? [sits back to watch movie]

39

difference in teaching

[QUOTE=Hendrik;999624]Skip,

Thanks for sharing!

IMHO, I have learn both the east and west style. and for me, there actually are similar. and the only different is some process could get one deeper then other.

From what I was coached, silence needs to be totally effortless and light. one will feel the weight of a single thought as soon as that thought got brought up.[/QUOTE]
Well, my class was only one hour a week for 6 weeks back in 1979. Whatever I didn’t learn then I don’t do now. It was only for stress relief and relaxation; not stop smoking or weight loss, so it was not quite self-hypnosis. That is all I use it for and frankly I can do taiji alone and get deeper than that now.

So I can kinda-sorta understand the power you speak of, and have thought about taking some qi gong when money is a little better… but I’ve never done it myself. Hopefully I did not imply that???

40

[QUOTE=Hendrik;999626]IMHO,

it is all about how to return to our default state. However, we have pile up with all the junk, so it help to have some one who has done it to lead one back from those confusing layer and layer of junk.[/QUOTE]

good lord, I agree with Hendrick!

the world must be about to end…

but seriously - yes, this is “correct” - we build up layers of habit, compensation, etc. - and yes, it can be HELPFUL (though not necessary) to have another person who has gone through the same process as a guide (as it has been in my case with my sifu)

the analogy is like a bent stick - when you try to unbend it, you just create another kink instead; however, if you just “allow” the organism to do what it wants “naturally”, it can lead to resolution of many of a given individual’s issues, depending of course as to what those issues are to begin with (not a concept unique to qigong or even so-called “eastern” thought - you find this in various so-called “western” practices as well, such as the phenommenon of unwinding in osteopathic medicine); for example, if one tries to consciously manipulate breathing, one will get certain effects, but if one allows the breath to spontaneously self-regulate, you will get others - each approach is of benefit at different times; another analogy would be a tangled telephone cord - if you try to pick it apart by hand to untwist it, it won’t happen - but if you just take the receiver off the hook and let it dangle, the cord will untwist itself (most of the time, sometimes it may need some “help”…), spinning around in different directions until it comes to a resting point of relative equilibrium;

there are certianly impications for healing here - meaning that if the system is self-regulating optimally, many “diseases” (hypertension, for example) ought to diminish / resolve; you may even “cure” yourself of other things, given that if the immune system functions optimally, it has a better chance of dealing with external pathogens; as such, achieving a sort of “stillness” in the physiology (and the mind, of course, given that mental stress is a key component of all this) is an important aspect of this (Hendrick’s idea of “silence” is akin to this - but it’s nothing mystical, it’s in context of alowing al the background activity to diminish / stop in order for the system to self-regulate optimally - and this can be achieved in various ways)

the important thing here though, is not to over generalize about the effects of this sort of thing - it will be diffeernt for everyone, even though there is a generalized effect - so to calim that qigong of any type will predictably heal specific ailments is dicey - one needs must be very careful in making claims beyond the scope of what is demonstrable objectively…