2.) Do you use your styles techniques during sparring?
If you mean do I incorporate techniques from the style I study into my free sparring, then yea, I try to. sometimes I wind up doing a disservice to the style or myself in the process.
3.) Do you work a few techs per sparring session?
If weâre free sparring, then no, no particular techs. We will do controlled sparring with a specific technique or two in mind occasionally in class though.
4.) Does your sparring look like kick-boxing or the style you train?
couldnât tell you. I have old TKD sparring habits and am picking up some new stuff too. I spar to my advantage using what I got.
5.) Does your Sifu stop and correct you when you use a tech not in the style or use a tech from the style wrong?
Generally only if itâs ineffective or way out there. If I do something unusual, and it works, he may comment and make adjustments or tell me to use what I know. If I do something really useless or that leaves me in a bad position he definitely lets me know.
What heâs saying is, would you use something like a Tiger Claw during sparring if your style does not use Tiger Claw technqiues. In which case, I would ask how you came upon a technique if it was not taught to you by your instructor. If you havenât been shown something correctly, what are your chances of using it correctly?
What the hell does this question mean? Itâs free-sparring
Just because itâs free sparring, that doesnât mean you go in waving your arms and legs around like an untrained fool. You should be practicing your styleâs techniques when you sparâŚotherwise, why practice them at all?
Originally posted by MasterKiller What heâs saying is, would you use something like a Tiger Claw during sparring if your style does not use Tiger Claw technqiues. In which case, I would ask how you came upon a technique if it was not taught to you by your instructor. If you havenât been shown something correctly, what are your chances of using it correctly?
I think heâs saying the opposite. (Laughing Cow, feel free to correct one or both of us.) Heâs not asking about using techniques from outside your style. Heâs asking about being able to use techniques in sparring from inside your style.
Question being, if Iâm a taiji stylist who spars (as opposed to solely pushing hands), can I reliably pull off the single whip in sparring.
As for being able to use the tiger claw without explicitly being taught it⌠Whatâs involved in a tiger claw? Because it seems to me that with enough experience, a person can extrapolate. Can I use my fingers to scratch, claw, and pinch without explicitly being taught to do so? Yeah. Will it, stylistically, be up to tiger claw snuff? Likely not.
I was referring to ânot using a technique in the styleâ?
I took that to mean do you use techniques outside your styles catalog, but either way, you should be able to apply what your taught; otherwise, itâs just masturbation.
Tiger claw was just an example for the sake of argument. But even so, have you ever tried to use one while sparring? Itâs not something that can be done effectively without some proper conditioning and guidance. Fingers break pretty easy. You just donât throw them like a punch or scratch madly at someoneâs eyes. There are specific targets for different tiger claw techniques.
Originally posted by MasterKiller
Tiger claw was just an example for the sake of argument. But even so, have you ever tried to use one while sparring? Itâs not something that can be done effectively without some proper conditioning and guidance. Fingers break pretty easy. You just donât throw them like a punch or scratch madly at someoneâs eyes. There are specific targets for different tiger claw techniques.
They do, but the focus of a tiger claw is primarily the heel and the palm to strike and then the âclawâ to rip, scratch or grab. Your fingers should be pulled back out of the way for the inital impact.
Im not about scratches⌠Im more about brutally maiming. I prefer to throw one to the ground and step on their testicles before scratching
Tiger Claw technqiues are used to rip tendons and muscles from the bone. You hit a muscle, grab, twist, and pull. Thatâs hardly scratching.
They do, but the focus of a tiger claw is primarily the heel and the palm to strike and then the âclawâ to rip, scratch or grab. Your fingers should be pulled back out of the way for the inital impact.
True. Ap brought up scratching. I was just playing advocate here. That being said, some tiger techniques are used to rake the eyes, in which case, the fingers are extended. Also, some tiger punches are peformed sorta like a Leopardâs paw, the area of impact being the finger area between the first and second knuckle (where as a Leapord paw makes contact with the second knuckle).
As far as specialized hits go, Id much prefer a pheonix eye fist, or leapord fist. Leopard punches are toughâŚ
Hi all.
Here are a few questions about the sparring you do:
1.) Do you do free-sparring (anything goes)?
2.) Do you use your styles techniques during sparring?
3.) Do you work a few techs per sparring session?
4.) Does your sparring look like kick-boxing or the style you train?
5.) Does your Sifu stop and correct you when you use a tech not in the style or use a tech from the style wrong?
Why, I am asking this questions should be easy to spot, if not I will tell you later.
Sometimes.
Of course.
Lately we have been choosing a few techniques to work on, and when we can use that technique at least 90% of the time or so, move on to get down another.
Looks like shaolin-do and kickboxing and shuai chiao.(any kicks and punches will look like kickboxing, no?)
Originally posted by MasterKiller Just because itâs free sparring, that doesnât mean you go in waving your arms and legs around like an untrained fool. You should be practicing your styleâs techniques when you sparâŚotherwise, why practice them at all?
I disagree with this. Sparring isnât simply learning how to apply a techinque, itâs an excercize designed to develope a whole range of attributes. When you spar, you deal with conditioning (both to give and recieve full-power and near full-power blows), adrenaline dump, and cardio. You learn to feel the difference between a delivering shot with power and a shot without under a stress. You develop tactics and familiarize yourself with methods of entry, defence, ranges, etc.
Sparring is so much more than just learning to throw a punch with the proper form. This is why Iâm a big fan of learning to spar early, even with imperfect technique. The technique you can always corrected and refined by your instructor afterwords, but if you donât learn how to get in and attack without being stopped by a teep or fold up when ever going full power, youâre not going to do much with your perfect punch.
If Iâm sparring where all types of attacks within reason are allowed and my opponent hits me with a spinning back kick with good power but thatâs not on the menu at my school whatâs the problem? Itâs free sparring. Heâs being exposed to some new stuff, Iâm being exposed to some new stuff. Whatâs the issue? What does âNot in my styleâ mean at this point? Youâre just fighting with what youâve learned, whatever that may be. Iâm not going to abandon my wrestling takedowns and body control in free-sparring unless I do so intentionally to work on something else.
But you have to learn to deal with that as well, donât you? âNot in my styleâŚâ Funny concept.
I disagree with this. Sparring isnât simply learning how to apply a techinque, itâs an excercize designed to develope a whole range of attributes. When you spar, you deal with conditioning (both to give and recieve full-power and near full-power blows), adrenaline dump, and cardio. You learn to feel the difference between a delivering shot with power and a shot without under a stress. You develop tactics and familiarize yourself with methods of entry, defence, ranges, etc.
All of this can and should be done while you practice your styleâs techniques. No one comes out the gate with a full curriculum. Part of learning the basics is learning how to use them during sparring. Once you advance to more difficult and specialized manuevers, you should be trying to apply those during sparring. Sparring is part of the learning process, not the culmination of it.
Originally posted by MasterKiller All of this can and should be done while you practice your styleâs techniques. No one comes out the gate with a full curriculum. Part of learning the basics is learning how to use them during sparring. Once you advance to more difficult and specialized manuevers, you should be trying to apply those during sparring. Sparring is part of the learning process, not the culmination of it.
I agree that sparring is definitely part of the learning process, but I disagree that teachnique is the desired goal. The technique will come along and refine itself, if youâre working with a good teacher AND sparring regularly. I fail to see how having picture perfect technique is a prerequisite for sparring, thatâs all.
I know your point, and I agree with it. Tunnel vision is a dangerous concept in the martial arts.
But if you are going to class to learn grappling, it does little good to ignore the groundwork and focus on throwing tornado kicks all night long during practice.
When you are learning to fight a particular way, you should be trying to apply those methods you are being taught. Otherwise, whatâs the point of learning them?
Why take kung fu if you want to fight like a boxer?
fail to see how having picture perfect technique is a prerequisite for sparring, thatâs all.
Correct does not mean picture-perfect. There is a correct way to kick in order to generate the most powerâŚwho cares what it looks like. âStyleâ really has nothing to do with how something looksâŚit has to do with an accepted curriculum of techniques. If you think the only difference between White Crane and Black Tiger is the poses, then you have a shallow understanding of CMA.
Ah, well, thatâs different. If Iâm told to box/kickbox the other guy to improve my striking, without being allowed to grapple, then weâre clearly sparringâeven free-sparring, but not really FREE-sparring, if you catch my meaning.
And thatâs fine. I see nothing wrong with that. Fair enough. I think weâre in agreement here!
Originally posted by MasterKiller Correct does not mean picture-perfect. There is a correct way to kick in order to generate the most powerâŚwho cares what it looks like. âStyleâ really has nothing to do with how something looksâŚit has to do with an accepted curriculum of techniques.
I think weâre just arguing over minor differences in training methodology at this point rather than some fundamental rift between us.
That said, I believe that if you use incorrect technique in sparring against a skilled adversary, youâre quick to realize how itâs ineffective. Case in point-- if I go in to use a hip throw and I donât use my legs, I can feel how I donât have enough power for the throw. Sparring allows me to realize this feeling so I know what to practice on my own. I canât imagine learning technique without sparring, nor can I imagine âperfectingâ a move without it failing in sparring several times before I figure out how best to perform the technique as it suits my body.
This is shaping up to be an interesting discussion.
But not even all Black Tiger schools teach the same exact thing, not all Crane schools teach the same exact thing. Yes the teacher should teach you and yes he should correct you when hes teaching you stuff, but what does that have to do with names? The teacher teaches, not the banners, and the students learn, not the uniforms and tshirts with fancy logos and neat slogans.
Forms are good to learn the technique, and the proper stance, ect. of it, but sparring does the same. Sparring just further refines a given technique to the point of being able to apply consistently against a resisting opponent. I feel that some forms work should be done before sparring, to give a student at least vague feeling of technique before trying to spar. (sending a student to spar without first showing some techniques is asking for them to windmill the arms)
Forms are just an easy way to show techniques.
Originally posted by yenhoi
[B]But not even all Black Tiger schools teach the same exact thing, not all Crane schools teach the same exact thing. Yes the teacher should teach you and yes he should correct you when hes teaching you stuff, but what does that have to do with names? The teacher teaches, not the banners, and the students learn, not the uniforms and tshirts with fancy logos and neat slogans.
:eek: [/B]
No, but the Black Tiger schools should at least share some common denominators their teachings. The philosophy in applying a Tiger technique should be universal even if the teacher, his methods, and the forms themselves differ.
But not even all Black Tiger schools teach the same exact thing, not all Crane schools teach the same exact thing.
:rolleyes: Here we go again. Even though techniques can vary from school to school, the general philosophy is the same. A pure Tibetan White Crane teacher does not teach his students to use a Black Tiger Claw anymore than a pure BJJ teacher shows his students tornado kicks.
The catalog of techniques from which you are taught is what you have to work with. If you arenât taught something, you arenât going to know to use it. And since a style is system of techniques which have been grouped together, thatâs what you have to work with. A fighter uses techniques, right? I mean, you agree on that point, surely?
They do, but the focus of a tiger claw is primarily the heel and the palm to strike and then the âclawâ to rip, scratch or grab. Your fingers should be pulled back out of the way for the inital impact.