So I left my school

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

Over the past year I’ve really been reconsidering why I attend the school I do. Basically we do a ton of forms from many different styles including Northern Shaolin, 7 star Praying Mantis, Wing Chun, and Hung Gar. We also include basic San Shou fighting techniques as well as Tai Chi. In adition to all of this we do many conditioning types of drills. Stance work in many different fashions. We lightly spar on a regular basis. One thing that is missing is 2 man drills. We very rarely drill the actual techniques from the forms. This leaves a huge gap in taking the techniques from the form to actual sparring.

Now I really enjoy kung fu but with all the different styles that we train in, it is very difficult to get proficient at any one style. There are subtle differences in each as well as major differences in theory and technique.

As a result I would say that my conditioning is good but my sparring is probably mediocre at best and I’m one of the top students.

So a week and a half ago I just up and walked out of class. I didn’t talk to my sifu I just left. I couldn’t take it any more.

Also, over the past two months I’ve been training with another sifu in his kitchen. The comparison is night and day. This guy is the real deal and it shows in the way he approaches and structures class.

Anyway, I feel guilty that I have left my school of over 3 years. I’ve been thinking about going back but I’m not sure. What would be the point? I miss my friends at the school and I feel that I owe my sifu some kind of explanation or something.

Not sure what I’m saying here. Any thoughts?

2

I shouldn’t be posting first on this, but I have nothing better to do at work

Now coming from a movie guy I will tell you this------the learning of kungfu is neverending, one can spend their entire life mastering ONE style, etc. I am sure3 that you have heard all of these, but you raise a very good question here.

WHAT IS BETTER:

Studying as many styles as possible
OR
Trying to master one style

But you should go talk to your sifu just as long as he is like the mentors you have had in the past.
So doesn’t sound all bad for you either, so cheer up, I just saw the iron monkey.

3

I would talk to your sifu about leaving the school with out a doubt. Other wise you’re just being rude. Should you change your mind and decided to go back to the school in later you won’t look like an ass.

If you feel comfortable enough to talk about why your leaving, he would probably appriecate some constructive critizism and may even change his class some to incorperate more drills.

4

You walked out in the middle of class???

Whoa, I would at least tell your sifu you are leaving the school. It is the respectful thing to do. Why burn youir bridges? You did learn something from him over the time you have trained at the school, right? I don’t think any instructor out there would hold it against you if you left, so long as you told him you did and why. It’s well within your right. Like the previous post said offer some constructive criticism and most of all thank him for his teachings…move on!

5

yea man, should not have just walked out. you may not have the opportunity to go back now. if you had walked out on one of my classes you would be automatically suspended for at least a month. You let your frustration build w/o communicating to the person you needed to talk to.

take it from a teacher who’s been lied to and mislead by several students lately, do the right thing and at least explain to him the REAL reasons you’re leaving…if you still can. Open with an apology for your rudeness and see if he’ll listen.

we all recommended you follow the new guy since you were feeling so good about it…but not in this manner.

6

The good, the bad and the ugly…

The good thing is you found out that you have out grown your old training model which I figure is about 80 - 90 % of Kung Fu schools in North America.

The bad thing is both you and your teacher found out the truth the hard way. BTW, I don’t think criticism (even a friendly one) is going to help here. It might just add insult to injury for your teacher. I think you have pin-pointed the problem of the teaching. It’s at best eclectic collection of forms. I would be hard press to consider that a system even. The truth is horizontal growth doesn’t challenge you any more. There are really very few individuals who can teach Kung Fu in a fluid and structureless format. Using no way as way and having no limit as limit is at best one in a million odd.

Ugly - well, that’s the reality because you walked out without saying a word. This is hard to swallow for any teacher IMHO. So, there is really one option which is to leave it at that and move on. Time has come for you to search for the deeper meaning in martial arts and time waits for nobody.

Regards

Mantis108

7

I have been instructing students on a full time basis for over 15 years. I’ve enrolled a ton of people and have had a ton quite. I have not been able to satisfy everyone with my vision of training. However, it was always beneficial to me when a student would tell me that they were leaving the school (It wasn’t often that anyone actually told me…most just do what you did…leave without a word) and for what reason they were leaving.

Several times, I have taken an honest look at why the student had left and changed things about my program. Sometimes, I didn’t care if they left as we weren’t a good fit from the begining. But ask yourself this question; “Did you talk to your Sifu at any time during your training, about the challenges you were having?” If you didn’t, you probably owe him that, especially if you want him to be successful in the future. If you told him and he didn’t listen, then you should still tell him good-bye and thank him anyway. But if he didn’t listen, you leaving is a lesson for him to learn from.

Although most people don’t like to hear it, we all benefit from constructive criticism. I for one, teach almost 600 students at my two academies. I have to teach in such a way, that most of them feel is beneficial. But the truth is, if I taught the way I’d like to teach, I’d have very few students. When you teach for a profession, you have to find a successful way to teach the masses, as you rely on them for income. If this is the case with your Sifu, I assume your constructive criticism would definatly help him.

8

I know how you feel because I have been through things like this in the past. First, don’t burn any bridges if you don’t have to. Show good charactor by talking to him about this and telling him that you want to study another style for a while. It seems that you have your mind made up that the new Sifu has something to offer and so I would stick to my guns if I were you. If he reacts in a very negitive way, then maybe it’s time to move on compleatly.

I’ve been in and out of martial arts for more then half of my life and I can truly say that “the grass is always greener” saying often holds true. My restless spirit and desire for change has led me from one school to another over the years and I have been able to sample from a wide variety of styles. But like the saying goes; A rolling stone gathers no moss. My constant moving on has often left me with thoughts of what could have been…not only in the martial sense but in the social sense as well.

Specificaly, I can relate to your concern regarding drills and application. My Sifu is not nearly as intense in this aspect as I would like him to be but he has his reasons for this and I respect the way he runs the class. I also choose to be there of my own free will.

I’ll leave you with some good food for thought by telling you why I stay with my Sifu. First, he is strong minded enough to not feel threatened or undercut when I study with someone else. In fact, he has on many occaisions hosted other teachers at his kwoon. Second, the quality of his teaching is excellant. He may not teach all the things that I want him to but what I do get, is the genuine article. And most importantly, his knowledge of Tai Chi and Chi Gung makes it worth staying with him even if I never learn another Kung Fu set.

Try out the new guy and see how that goes and also try to remain on good terms with your old Sifu. If you think that your position is tough then just think about what it is like for people like myself. I’m 39 years old and there is no kung fu within an hour of where I live. Even if there was, I really don’t have the $ to spend on it. I only get to go visit my Sifu and the friends that I’ve made at his school a handfull of times per year. What I have is what I have. It’s forced me to learn to value what I’ve learned and that’s an entire Kung fu lesson on it’s own…

9

You did what you had to do.

You weren’t learning how to fight in that school.

Time to go.

10

Trust

Chief,
Trust yourself. Trust your intuition. As the saying goes, everything you need to know, you already know, you just have to realise you know it.

It sounds to me like you have already realised it is time for you to move forward. And, it sounds like you have found a new Sifu to help you.

This leaves the matter of your past, and paying your respect and gratitude to your former sifu and your kung fu brothers (and sisters). If you can resolve this, I suggest you will feel more able to move forward, and you will resolve this nagging regret you voiced.

Say what you have to say or don’t, and move on. Nobody can give you the answer better than you can find it yourself.

Courage comes in many forms.

11

wow

do you have like a 900 # I can call and actually hear stuff like this.

12

follow your heart Chief Fox. Follow your heart.

I see how you could feel empty because of the lack of actual applications drills.

but how i teach my students i teach them the combinations, we do them against a partner and when they have that down pat, i then teach them the form because they will have a better understanding on how to use it instead of acting like a robot.

the school wasn’t suiting your needs, and its good to move on.

or you could have initiated the applications drills yourself. grab a partner and drill the hell out of it.

you have to realize something, your sifu gives you the tools, it is up to you to find YOUR way because your sifu found his. you must make the gung fu part of your soul and then let that out. you will know what i mean when you -if not already-find yours. it becomes you. no one else but you. so what will you do with the gift your sifu gave you?

i may not have left the school, but would have requested the sifu add in the things your were missing. that way he wouldn’t have lost a student.

if i don’t make sense, i’m on muscle relaxers.

hsk

13

Thank you all for your input.

I just want to make a few things clear so you all don’t think I’m a total j@ck@ss.

I respect the he!! out of my sifu and I do want to see his school succeed. But the situation kinda just got to be too much for me.

Out of respect for my sifu, I suggested that he make video tapes of the entry level forms so he could sell them to new students for reference material. I did the video taping, I edited the video, I bought the video tapes, printed labels and presented them to him free of charge. He asked how much he owed me and I told him that I just wanted to do my part.

I printed t-shirts that I sell in his school and we split the profits.

I painted a huge sign on the windows in the front of his school.

I built a professional website for the school.

I did all this out of the goodness of my heart and out of respect for my sifu and what he has taught me. I never have and never will expect anything extra for what I’ve done. I did it as a token of appreciation.

A couple of months ago, I sat down with my sifu and two senior students. They asked what I wanted out of the school. I told them that I simply don’t feel comfortable with the material after 3 years. I told them that I felt that I am not comfortable enough with the applications or techniques to use them in sparring. My sifu said, I’ve seen you use applications from forms all the time. One senior student said, well you can kick my butt. The other senior student asked if I was interested in teaching some classes. All very nice things to say but I don’t think they were listening. The conversation downgraded from there.

The night I walked out, we had just completed several different drills from three different kung fu styles we spent all of 3 minutes on each drill (if that). I thought to myself, how am I ever going to really absorb this stuff and make it a part of me if this is all the time we dedicate to it? It was ridiculous. I honestly got so frustrated that it was better that I left and not said anything.

I’ll call my sifu tomorrow and apologize. I’ll ask him if it’s alright if I take a month off and see how I feel after that.

Thanks again to all of you for your input. I really do appreciate it.

14

chief fox,

can i ask you a question? “what brought you to this sifu anyway, you chose him right?”

yeah maybe a month off is a good thing. But i have been in your shoes only different circumstances. Me, you know i come from a real traditional school, and for being the only white guy there most of the time i was being ****ted on regularly. luckily i’m not a punk and can take being ****ted on, but on the other hand i knew if i quit because of that everyone from my school would think i was weak, and a sissy. so I stuck it through, and now look, basically i’m my sifu’s #1 now.

as a caucasian in a school that would prefer to keep it all asian i was on the receiving end of BS alot. don’t laugh but i even told my sifu i was turning in my shirt and going to quit. you know what they did? they made jokes out of it and made me feel stupid. it was stupid to want to quit because i was making mistakes and getting repremanded for it. but, i have the chinese characters of “Hung Sing” in big black and red letters tattooed on my chest, and realized that i love my school and im not weak so why quit. even more, everytime i take off my shirt…BAMMMMMMMM there they are, “hung sing” and i can’t get rid of it.

So Chief, if i were in your shoes, and love my sifu, like the styles, etc, etc, i would ADD what is missing in the curriculum, run it by your sifu see what he thinks, or become a teacher and add in all the elements you felt was missing from your school. in the end your sifu will still have you as a student, you are more satisfied because you are contributing to your school, and the other students benefit as well from what you feel is lacking.

trust me, i know. I did it! when i grew up (from 13 to now) my sifu never really taught drills or applications. it was always expected for us to figure it out. we repeatedly practice the same old boring sets, but when it came to fighting we all felt like we didn’t know what to do. but when people are watching as your sifu asks you “chief, come here and show us how to use this technique” don’t be scaredl, go up and do it. even if your sifu never taught you that particular applicatin, you sifu may realize that chief has some skill.

as a sifu, i take all that my sifu never did, and do this for my students. I know that there are not alot of gung fu fanatics who made it their lives like i have, it days like these “figuring it out for your self” takes too long, so i hand feed my students until i see they start developing the gung fu within them.

don’t leave the school chief. just bring your concerns back to your sifu and lay it out nakedly on the table, and i don’t mean you lay nakedly either.!!! tell your sifu what you a re looking for, ask him if he can provide it for you, if he can’t, then i guess its time to move on to a new school.

but trust me, the gung fu is within, you should begin your search there, and find what makes “Chief” tick as a gung fu man.

sorry soo lllloooonnnggggg.

hsk

15

I’ve gotten mad at my master – when he was telling me things I needed to hear but didn’t want to:) – and walked out. I always cool down after a few days and call him and apologize and get back to business.

I’ve been in your situation though too, when I realise it’s just time to move on. Hey, you’re not supposed to stay in kindergarden forever. It’s time to move on. Don’t hate your kindergarden teacher though. Thank them and move on.

Seems like you’re ready now to go shopping for a place that fits your needs.

16

um, you do practice on your own time don’t you?

I mean, if you want to discover applications, then you have to practice and not just in class on class time but at home, alone or with a kungfu brother or sister.

Discover what you can and where you find bumps, take that to the sifu for clarification.

You may have seventy forms to learn but you only really need to take one or two and make them yours, the rest is just material to hang onto and practice with a gradual approach so that you can at least get some benefit from them

sparring is something that occurs in degrees as you learn and practice more. there will always be a limit to what can eb achieved with sparring.

copmpetitive fighting is different because you don’t really care about or feel responsible for your opponent and you feel freer to open up more and flex the style and techniques. With friends and kwoon mates, you won’t really get this experience and will find yourself apologizing for hitting too hard or too sensitive a place or whatever. Meterd sparring is a learning experience, but it can be a drag on real learning of fighting. You could take a more direct path, but then, you probably risk more injury which in turn can really effect your training path by slowing it down even more. So it’s a trade off in that respect.

But, if you don’t feel right about being there, then just say you need a break from it and you want to head out and have a look around. there really shouldn’t be a problem with that.

17

The choice is ultimately yours

I began my training in an Okinawan style Karate. Although I felt the style itself was good, the instructor was not. He had little experience(only about five years of training) and we rarely sparred. After a while one of the students got hurt(broken shin) and we never sparred again. Only kata and self-defense 2 man drills with no resistance. I studied this way for 2 years and finally got tired of getting my ass kicked by people newer than me who went to MA classes that actually sparred. I quit and found a Pai Lum school with a good teacher who taught good fighting skills. He always encouraged us to cross train and learn as much as we could. I branched out and trained with a boxing coach and with wrestlers and jiujitsu practioners who threw me around(and still do) and taught me basic ground fighting. The point Chief Fox that I am trying to make is that you have to find what is right for you. There is nothing wrong with branching out and trying new things. If you studied for seven years under your Sifu, however, I would have departed on better terms. You may want to train there again someday again. I always tell my students to learn as much as they can and try different things, because there is no such thing as a perfect system.

18

I think it’s about growing.

It seems like your first school was a mixture of styles. It was probally a good platform for you to decide what direction you wanted to go in. Now it’s time for you to get more in depth instruction, which you are doing.

It’d be nice for you to be on good terms with your first sifu. I don’t think you have a need to ever go back there for training. it seems like you got what you could from it and it’s time to move on.

BTW, what’s the schools website?

19

Some people teach for money, some teach because they want to pass it on. Many, if not most, schools are run as businesses for a profit. I dont understand the mentality that says you owe any explanation to a BUSINESS that is taking your money. If I quit a gym, I dont sit and tell them why, I just leave. There seems to be this strange combination now a days where schools want to keep the ‘traditional’ aspects, but them mix them with aspects of running a for profit business. I personally dont see them being compatable. If, for example, you were living with your teacher and working for him to earn your keep and he was also teaching you, then yes, you owe him an explanation. If on the other hand, it is a school where you pay your $80-$100 per month (and still offer your services to him as you stated) then you dont owe anything. You can both walk away any time, it’s business. I’ve seen both sides of the coin on this personally, so it is just my opinion.

ANAL VIDS

20

It can be hard for any school to keep up with the needs of thier advanced students, few students stick around long at the advanced levels. Few upper level students means that the school has to rely on new students to meet the schools finacial needs. Schools meet the need of the new studnets, and the advanced students are trapped in that cycle of teaching and learning with each new generation. This does help you to refine and grow in your understanding of the basics, but does limit other area’s that you need and are ready to grow into. Changing school will almost never solve all your problems, but is sometimes nessary anyway.

I would encourage you to stay at your new school, take the oportunity to teach a new class, (in a new time slot, or and old one if your sifu will give it to you to do what you want) and focus that class on all that you think your missing.

You also need to realize that not everyone will be ready or interested in learning what you want to work on. So, your class should be sperate from the normal curriclum and optional. Also be sure to have a lesson plan in place for your new class, if you try to wing it, you class just won’t be as good.

I would also encourage you to continue with your new teacher.

All decisions are ofcourse your own, be sure you know why your making them. :cool: