shidoken
I caught the last few minutes of it. (That will do it for this years Shidoken tournament!) Damn ESPN for not telling me about the event in person, I caught the wrap up.
Uh, you only get points if you visibly stun your opponent. No points at all for even hard blows if they don’t have an effect.
If you got in the ring with these guys I think you’d be very surprised at the power in their strikes.
Not saying that they are the best fighters in the world, but that’s what fighting usually looks like: messy. That’s part of being a good fighter: messing up the other guy’s game so he is off balance.
I think they were timid so they could get to the gloved round intact.
“Americans don’t have the courage to come here,” Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban
There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, ‘To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time.’ Patton
Shidokan Karate
I watched a few matches for the first time on ESPN2 last night. At first I thought it kind of sucked. Then after seeing a couple matches I began to really like the way the matches are structured. The first three rounds were bare-knuckle (no closed fist strikes to the face), rounds 4-6 were Thai kickboxing (with 10 oz gloves) and rounds 7-9 were grappling (5 oz open hand gloves). Anybody else familiar with this type of fighting?
I’m not familiar with it but I watched the same thing and i though it was set up pretty neat.
It was fun to watch I will admit. However, what really gets me is that I just do not see Karate in those matches most of the time. I see just kickboxing with a few twists. Did anybody ever see a classic Karate block once? How about an elbow technique or anything other than just boxing and some kicking.
These guys should be allowed to go at the groins too. How very different the techniques and styles would be if the groin attacks were legal like they are in a fight were we have to actually defend ourselves.
Interesting format.
Ive seen this a couple times on ESPN over the ast couple years. I think its their answer to NHB, but more structured. It shows strengths in the three areas of fighting. But I like to see them combined into one event.
Shidokan is frikkin hardcore and wicked! Very intense competition. Karate may not be my cup o’ tea but i respect the hell outta those shidokan fighters. And i also think its a really good format because it covers many important facets of fighting and also provides a format for karate guys to use more of their stuff (ie the bare knuckle, no fists to the face rounds).
CD Lee,
I actually think that a good number of shidokan guys do apply a lot of karate techniques and principles, altho i must admit I’ve never taken a day of karate in my life. Just from what i can observe tho. I agree that you hardly ever see classical karate blocks and whatnot, but how often do you see that stuff in ANY full contact fighting format. Some people are too harsh on karate, but i think that hardcore karate has definite strengths. However, the fact remains that a lot of the classical techniques simply are not functional. That’s why you’ll never see them in the ring. JMO
A simple block is not functional? How do you figure that? As it was there were a few blocks, but they were mostly in the muay thai section, go figure.
I saw the the first couple of rounds. The uniformed fighting looked like muay thai knee lifts with alot of gi grabbing clinches. A few punches but nothing really devastating. The second set of rounds had more striking and more combinations. You see spin back fists and more complex fist and foot combos. Didn’t see the grappling part.
They were not going for the knock out. They wouldn’t have much of a show if it eneded in round one. A few medium power stingers but no real incapacitating moves. At least in the first parts. I didn’t see the last round or the grappling. Who won, BTW. And how?
Sifu Abel:
Sounds like you know what you were watching. It is not that I am raggin on these guys skills. It is just that it looks so sportish to me. You are so right about the power. Hardly anything there to do quick fight-ending damage. I know these guys would surely not fight the same way in a street fight or bar fight!
My real point is that they are fighting more like boxers and kick-boxers, as far as intent and rhythm. Hit a little, back up a little, a little side to side, throw again, don’t commit too much, look at the guy again, take another crack, he is not going all out on you…etc, etc. Now, I firmly believe, and I mean firmly, that if you were to take a top 20 boxer, they would have obliterated every single ****okan guy in that ring before we got to the grappling stage. These guys as a group, do not puch that well in a boxing format. I am convinced that their punches and strikes are far better in a bar situation.
The greatest drawback to transfering boxing skills to real fights is that in boxing, the opponents cannot grab your arms with thier hands, so you can keep punching, worrying only about the clinch. In a real fight, you have to compact everything into a smaller space. If you strike, take the fastest line, step into the guy, and if you miss, grab, turn, and get an angle or take him off his centerline IMMEDIATELY. When he is off balance, strike again and flow.
All in all, I think they should skip the stand-up sections, and allow a fight using Karate.
Ohhh…my other tangent. They way they do standing eight counts is extreemly dangerous for the health of the fighters!!! they prolong a guy beyond his logical point of injury and loss, simply to allow him to be pulverized again potentially when he is clearly damaged. This is one reason boxing used to be so very dangerous. Either let them knock him out, thus ending the fight, no more punishment…or stop the fight if he is too hurt, ending the fight, no more punishment.
What!?! I went to the Shidokan in chicago about 2 years ago and every fight ended with a knockout. Maybe it didn’t look powerful because in the bare knuckle karate round there is no face punches and gloves in the Muay Thai round of course but that third round where it’s more “NHB style” there was always a knock out. Those guys are really tough.
Asj Cung Le how tough fighting ShidoKan is, I read an interview that said he couldn’t move his leg for a week and he won!
Just been to a shotokan karate class…
Hi all,
I’ve recently been thinking about changing martial art styles, just looking for something suited more to me, so I’ve visited quit a few different kung fu classes (mainly WC), anyway, I got a leaflet through the door about a new local karate club and thought I’d go along for a look out of interest and took an open mind with me.
I must say I was surprised, they flow a lot better than I thought they would, thought I note no grappling - not even simple stuff like grabs were practiced, which is a shame. They are supposed to be all rigid but I didn’t really see any evidence of that.
The instructor was very good and showed everyone the techniques well. My own personal thoughts thought were that the techniques did not have the same level of fighting speed/efficiency as those I have learnt from kung fu - though obviously I have only seen one lesson so that’s not exactly built on a solid foundation!
The class sparred quite a lot, not all of it free sparring, but they all seemed very competant - they all flowed pretty well and were fast/powerful, all in all very impressed, but it’s not really the right style for me.
Anyone had any similar experiences?
It sounds stupid but the more styles of martial arts I see, the less green the grass seems on the other side.
My Sifu did shotokan in brazil before he learned kungfu. He said his sensei was in the japanese army and was extermly tough. He told me a story about him and this guy he didn’t like sparring at the school and said he was choking the guy and was getting kicked repeatedly in the kidney. My sifu broke a blood vessel in his kidney and the other guy was knocked out. Brutal stuff (I always heard before this all shotokan did was forms). He also said his sensei would let the students hit him full strength anywhere during sparring(bare knuckle) and he would laugh at them!!!
The more I practice the more I don’t care where it comes from. With that said I’ve been thinking of taking up a japanese style (traditional okinawan karate is interesting to me also kendo and judo sounds good). I’ve always respected the spirit behind the japanese arts.
Shotokan is pretty good. I trained that for 13 years before i met my Sifu 
We did some competition stuff, but also mainly the stuff u can’t use in a kumite… lots of kata application and principles. It inclded some grabbing, locking, throwing and closer stuff… was real good I’ve used it along with the aikido i also learned a lot when things have gone bad…
david
Glad you got to see some good Shotokan, goodness knows there are many bad schools out there. Glad to see they sparred.
Why is shotokan the most popular style of karate?
It seems like, no matter where you live, you will be able to find at least one shotokan school near you. However, there are many other styles of karate that may not have any schools anywhere near where you live. There also seems to be much more books and videos on shotokan than any other style of karate. What do you think the reason for this is? I think that it is because it is a relatively simple art to learn compared to many other styles. I also think that people are attracked to shotokan’s “one punch kill” philosophy. Shotokan even has a certain punch that supposedly there is no defense against . This same punch can also supposedly knock out an attacker if it connects, although I am skeptical that it could do so against an attacker who is high on drugs. I think this style can definitely work on the street if you can find the right instructor. However, most shotokan, and karate schools in general, in the United States are very sport, competition oriented, which hurts a person’s ability to use the style for self-defense. What are you thoughts on this? Thanks in advance.
To answer your original question - ginchin funakoshi.
to comment on the rest of your post, I don’t think people get into shotokan because of the one punch kill. Not in this day and age. If that were the case, people would be seeking out good dim mak teachers too. People train in shotokan because it’s there. TKD is the most popular MA in the world. Wherever you are, chances are there is either a karate or a TKD school. it’s convenient for people to take. Not that that’s entirely a bad thing - I’ve seen some VERY good TKD and karate out there, but like all arts, there are frauds and teachers who don’t care about properly training their students.
I don’t know of the punch you are speaking of, but how many times have you heard the same thing about CMA? constantly. matter of factly, on the internal thread, someone just mentioned that their teacher has a sword style that NOBODY can defend, or something to that effect.
Sport competition doesn’t necessarily hurt a person’s ability to defend themselves - the format does. point sparring may do that, but full contact sports will only enhance it, for a number of reasons.
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the contact - it will be the closest simulation you have to fighting in the street. Also, it teaches you how to cope with absorbing a blow. That is of extreme importance.
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the training. Ever notice how sport fighters tend to be in better shape than hobbyists and those who only train for self defense? they may need that conditioning on the street if they ever have to run, or if they are facing multiple attackers. people that are in better shape also tend to be more coordinated.
and karate can be very complex, you have to learn the principles behind the forms, just as in CMA. It’s not such a simple art to master.
The phrase “one punch, one kill” (ichi go, ichi e) does not specifically refer to killing someone with a punch.
It expresses the ideal of resolving a situation with a single, definitive, “perfect” action.
maybe people think that because of that translation you used. I was always told (and I could be wrong) that it was “one encounter, one chance” when looked at in that manner, it applies to more than the one punch kill.