Just curious to hear the opinions of others. I have been observing all the different aspects of Shaolin in its’ present state unfolding. It seems to me that while many of the private schools & the Temple itself still keep traditional forms & training as part of it’s foundation, the whole Shaolin martial arts (the Temple & the private schools) seem to encompass a whole lot more then just the traditional forms training & skills. Modern Wushu and Sport San Shou have become a big part of the equation. It also seems that the newer training in Shaolin also includes a lot more acrobatic & tumbling training then one might typically find in Modern Wushu. Tae Kwon Do has also found it’s way into many of the private Shaolin schools. A friend of mine recently returned from one of the private Shaolin schools and said that they had him and others doing a lot of actual wrestling (Greco & Chinese). Then a lot of these Shaolin martial artists are doing a lot of shows and tours. I saw a CCTV broadcast during Chinese New Years and several Shaolin martial arts performers included some Capoeira movements in their performance.
Long story short it seems to me that the whole Shaolin thing is becoming quite broad and encompassing. Personally I think its great but I sometimes wonder where is it all headed? What do others out there predict is the future for Shaolin martial arts and culture?
I saw the show to on CCTV during New year. My master told me that it was Tagou school (at least that’s how they were announced on TV). They payed big $$$$ to CCTV to perform and almost all of the performers weren’t even from Tagou.. Like the small boy who did the headflips backwards :eek:
I’ve been watching Shaolin closely for 10 years now. If you want my guess as to the next turn of the wheel, I’m keeping my eye on Yujian Shaolin, at least for now…
What part in this world would a righteous order of paladin like buddhist monks play?
How soon would it be before they were destroyed again for attempting to right the wrongs of the world through the use of Kungfu?
How many people would give an order like that buy in and dedicate their lives to the service of such a thing?
lol.
To sustain such an order would require secrecy and an incredible amount of human intelligence to seek out those who are unethical and immoral in order to help them correct their Karma.
ergo, we rot and when we have fallen, then the place for such an order will exist. Hopefully, it will not be forgotten how to go about setting it up again.
I often wonder what to think about the whole thing. I recall being told that as a dedicated practitioner, I was considered a 35th generation disciple. But when my study with the monks ended, did that mean I no longer qualify?
My perception of the spirit of shaolin was that it embraced all “Styles” at the time I was practicing, and since then I have continued my persuit of the martial arts beyond the current wave of shaolin monks.
I don’t blame the “shaolin order” for wanting to cash in on their hard work. But not all schools should have to choose this path. There are other martial arts that have established themselves as tax exempt cultural institutions, so I know that the martial arts and it’s teachers can survive in other ways than total commercialism. But nobody is getting rich.
What I hope will happen is that chinese martial arts will successfully divide into commercial and non-commercial schools, as indicated by the structure of the school and it’s tax status. There’s room for both and what is needed is a clear choice. I like spiritual and rigorous martial arts, and I like ridiculous photo books of guys in booty socks acting like ducks.
I often wonder what to think about the whole thing. I recall being told that as a dedicated practitioner, I was considered a 35th generation disciple. But when my study with the monks ended, did that mean I no longer qualify?
From what I can see the current lingeage at Shaolin is a Dharma-transmission. This is to say it is a monastic Chan lineage. This would mean that if you are not an ordained monk you do not belong and can not belong to this lineage.
Abbot Fu Yu’s 70 character poem is used for the generational names of Chan Shaolin monks.
Shaolin martial arts lineages are different and are passed on mainly through ordained clergy, ordained lay-Buddhist and laity their lay followers. This is to say that most if not all Shaolin martial lineages include ordained monastic practicioners, ordained lay-Buddhist and laity and would not be using Fu Yu’s poem.
It does seem to me that things are a bit screwed up there and from talking to some Buddhist scholars it would seem that this in fact is the case.
I guess what I was wondering is more where the ‘Shaolin’ martial arts are going, be they those as practiced at the temple or the private schools in Deng Feng. The whole monk thing is quite another story.
As to the money thing, that is a big factor in my view as it motivates what direction a school (private ones) might take as they need to make money to sustain themselves, thus the reason for TKD.
Myself I am curious I guess as to how the Shaolin martial arts will look in years to come and what it will encompass. Modern Wushu is very government controlled, any innovations are usually the results of Committees saying ‘Okay now everyone has to do these movements or routines’. Shaolin on the other hand doesn’t have these sorts of guidelines or parameters. But I do believe that Shaolin will become more divided between San Shou (sport kickboxing), Taolu forms (in particular performing ones) and then of course the Traditional Shaolin.
It seems to me that the Shaolin performing stuff is becoming even more acrobatic and showy in some cases then it’s Modern Wushu counterpart. As mentioned in my first post the CCTV broadcast included a few Capoeira moves. As mentioned by Xiao one boy did backwards headflips, looking like a very extreme movement. Personally I think you are going to see a lot more innovative flippity movements (not necessarily applicable or practical) in Shaolin not unlike what one can see in NASKA with the Freestyle kids. Is this good bad? Who’s to say? Downside I could see this becoming an overriding emphasis in Shaolin and some of what I have seen out of the Shaolin is just whack. Just a precidition. :eek:
…we went offline last weekend (6/25-26) to do an emergency repair on the forum. In the process, we lost all the posts from 6/23-24. At least we didn’t lose the forum :eek:
As the Buddhists say ‘all things are impermanent.’
Hey, Shaolin is SOUTH of here. And where I am is SOUTH of all of Canada. And I brought my heavy London Fog winter jacket and my Manchester United Sweater. Canadians know how to bundle up!
Well try looking at what it was in the recent past: the four families of shaolin were at quite a peak before the CR and fortunately some examples of this level of skill exist on video.
the Hong family style is one of the most technically advanced. it is superceded only by Abbot Gao’s Xing Gong. in many respects they are similar for thier length of forms and relative degree of difficulty. Hong has more kicks but the Gao Xing Gong kicks are more difficult, but there are fewer of them. I am quite convinced that the longest shaolin form exists as the 13claw single route/narrow path. it is as long as the hong big red plus the hong big cannon plus the hong hawk step plus the hong 10 sylabel mahayana.
Gao Jun died in 2003. he had seven students that i know about.
As a Chinese from the Shaolin area, I believe that I know much more about Shaolin than many people.
Fortunately, you finally realize something and start to think about it, SHAOLIN- where’s it going?
For the so called wushu that you see today at Shaolin Temple and the Wushu schools, students performing head flips and many other fancy looking movements, don’t you think the the normal gymnastics athletes can do it better than these Wushu students. When I see those modern “shaolin master” perform traditional shaolin forms in a modern wushu way, making all sorts of fancy movements and they get judged on their angles of the moves and the heights they get to. And the government plays a major role in these competitions.
I cant feel but sorry for these students in these wushu school some as young as 5. They train for many hours a day and I think the training will not help them in later life. As wushu is just a sport along with so called san da, Also the latest news going around dengfeng and shaolin temple is that two young wuhsu students died at TaGou the largest school in dengfeng.
I also feel sorry for those foreign gongfu enthusiast who coming to shaolin, they come with a great curiousity and respect, but most of them leave with disappointment after they get shocked, and confuse, and get hurted and etc. In the end they left with their passion as well.
You must be very disappointed with shaolin after reading my information. Also many people say that there is nothing exist in shaolin nowadays, shaolin already lost its essence. But I must say, shaolin is still there, you will see it when the heavy fog is dispersed. Dear friends, don’t give up! You can still find out the essence of shaolin if you make a careful investigation.
I personally predict, there will be big culture revolution in shaolin in the near future. Shaolin gongfu will be thoroughly overhauled and radically reformed to its original nature.
well, are you saying that they are going to move backwards towards tai tzu from Great Spirit or are you saying that they are going to become the living encyclopedia of all martial arts and then ****genize it? or rather, modernize it for all people? sounds like that cult we were talking about back in april.
as i know there is one master Shi Dejian 4th generation inheritor of shaolin Wu Gulun gongfu, he will establish an assoication called Ch’an Wu Yi with the support of the government. so i think soon shaolin will change in time and people will learn authentic shaolin culture.
i think people will change their concept about shaolin by then. i think people are lost due to the fact that wushu as taken a great infulance to people, and the true teaching of shaolin are over looked. also at present their are very few people who really know about traditional shaolin gongfu.
